Same Song, Another Verse

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Viewing 14 posts - 26 through 39 (of 39 total)
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  • #185119
    sjeff70
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    TexasCard,

    Many teams have proven that building a winning team with home-ground talent works but Mo isn’t capable of doing it on his own. He needs someone or (some) people down at the farm who are capable of building (and/or selecting) the talent needed as a foundation for a competitive team. This way Mo can get out of his own way of making consistently bad contracts to fill in the gaps. Whatever calculus Girsch is using hasn’t worked in years. Because they don’t have anyone that knows what good talent is early on we’ll have to wade through bad contracts and the playing out of each player at the big league level. This way Mo can stay out of the light of trading good players away and keeping the mediocre for the fans. Mediocre players can be thought of as great with deceptive marketing schemes.

    We all know Nitwitt is satisfied with mediocrity, otherwise he would have gotten rid of Mo long ago. Fans continue to fill the stadium because they believe in the deceptive marketing schemes. So I don’t expect any significant change and frankly I don’t have much hope in the future. The fans need to stop going to the games; that would probably force their hand.

    There are winning organizations that have much better farm systems than the Cardinals. So we can’t blame high draft picking.

    #185120
    blingboy
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    Most people in the stands are there to eat everything nachos and see some homers.

    #185121
    sjeff70
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    That’s some expensive entertainment. I can’t do it knowing what I know… Ugh

    #185131
    Brian Walton
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    Who are all these good players Mo traded away? Voit? Randy? Adolis? Grichuk? Kelly? Check their numbers in 2022.

    Other than Alcantara and Gallen, there isn’t much to complain about.

    #185135
    sjeff70
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    They aren’t doing well in 2022?

    #185136
    forsch31
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    sjeff70, is there anything else you know that you haven’t said above?

    #185138
    TexasCard
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    I think they’ve had and have some good homegrown talent. The problem is they haven’t supplemented it from the outside properly to get over the hump. You can’t build a team exclusively from inside, or free agency, or trades. Its finding the right combination of all three and it takes baseball people and the nerds to do it. The missing piece is how they approach filling the gaps from the outside.

    Brian I don’t think those guys were bad trades overall. They brought back some good players more often than not. To me it takes several high end players to play at the top end and the Cardinals just don’t seem willing to go there financially. That’s obviously their choice and it is what it is. I’ll still root for them to win with what they got but my expectations are very tempered.

    #185142
    sjeff70
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    forsch,

    No, I wasn’t implying anything – sorry. The organization wants me to go to a game and I won’t support Mo. Can’t do it.

    I’m a fan and I support the team by watching their games (pay for the package). I’m just very disappointed and frustrated with the CEO… and Nitwitt for that matter.

    #185145
    Brian Walton
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    TexasCard said:

    To me it takes several high end players to play at the top end and the Cardinals just don’t seem willing to go there financially.

    Do you mean several MORE? I think Goldy and Arenado are about as good as any trade acquisitions could be. Perhaps your reference is free agents? If so, that is true. Their strategy is to primarily grow from within.

    But the problem as I see it are lotsa homegrown role players with bursts of promise, but no developed stars to the level of the two major acquisitions. I still remember when Mo said Carlson reminded him of Albert (Pujols, not Jeff).

    To me this is a long term problem. Most of the greatest Cardinals of the DeWitt era came from elsewhere. Have there been any real homegrown stars since Albert and Yadi?.

    sjeff70, I feel your frustration, but please step back from the name-calling. Thanks in advance.

    #185147
    blingboy
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    The Cards have been good at devoloping players that are worth the money until they get expensive.

    #185148
    1982 willie
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    Going out and getting free agents doesn’t always work out. Hows that Trevor story deal working out for Boston. I agree we could do more in that area but we have a decent team. Yea they are frustrating sometimes but they can be fun to watch as well. We could be one of those teams that might put a couple of winning seasons in every twenty years or so.

    #185149
    TexasCard
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    BW you nailed exactly what I was trying to say. 100% agree with you. Tonight is a prime example. Hicks is a very good pitcher, for one inning. They need to stop the freaking charade of starting him. He’s only starting because they failed to truly address their shortage of quality big league starting arms. I’d rather see Liberatore out there starting instead of Hicks at this point.

    #185165
    forsch31
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    The Cardinals have not had very many great players through the draft, EVER. Here are the drafted players in the all-time Cardinals WAR leaderboards (top 50 hitters and top 50 pitchers):

    Pujols
    Simmons
    Molina
    Lankford
    Hernandez
    M. Carpenter
    Jordan
    Herr
    Templeton
    Drew
    Oberkfell
    Wong
    Pendleton
    Forsch
    Morris
    Lynn
    C. Martinez
    Magrane
    Denny
    J. Garcia

    Now I know there are a lot of other players who have had great careers for other teams that were drafted by the Cardinals. However, I don’t have a quick reference to list them. Point is that it is not just in the Mo era or even the DeWitt era. It covers the entire draft era.

    EDIT: There are 16 players who were drafted by other teams that are in the top 100 WAR leaderbaard (50 batters, 50 pitchers).

    #185199
    sjeff70
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    I would like to know how much blame we should give to the development of players regardless of where we get them. Can mediocre talent be coached to be great and can great talent be made mediocre. When players get traded to other organizations is there an unlearning process of bad habits or mental approach that happens between organizations?

    I’m talking about hitting at the farm level. It seems defense and base running would be based more on universal principles that can be improved upon with practice as opposed to talent.

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