Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › Pitching Surplus
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August 2, 2018 at 9:43 am #63660
I would be interested in how other people would prefer our starting pitching surplus be used the next couple of years.
The candidates are:
Martinez
Wacha
Mikolos
Weaver
Reyes
Gomber
Gant
Poncedeleon
Hudson
Hicks
Helsly
EllisThe catagories are:
Starter
Bullpen
Memphis
Trade
FA (for this excercise let’s say re-signing Wacha ou Mikolos would cost 4/72 and non signing would give us a draft pick.)This would be my pla for the next 2 years
2018
Starters
Martinez
Mikolos
Reyes
Gant
GomberBullpen
Hudson
Hicks
PoncedeleonMemphis
Helsley
EllisTrade
Wacha
Weaver2019
Starters
Martinez
Mikolos (re-sign)
Reyes
Hudson
GomberMemphis
?Bullpen
Poncedeleon
Hicks
Helsley
EllisTrade
GantAugust 2, 2018 at 10:45 am #63673bccranParticipantI think it’s probably safe to assume that Martinez, Wacha, Mikolas, and Reyes will be in the rotation next year barring injury. That leaves ome spot open. My guess is that spot will be won by Flaherty. That would put Weaver,
Ponce, Gomber, Gant, and Hudson in the bullpen or stretched out at Memphis. Also factoring in will be Helsley and Woodford.August 2, 2018 at 10:51 am #63676Geez I forgot Flaherty! Now I have to redo it! I also have my years wrong! And thanks to this lovely platform I cant even edit it or take it down!
August 2, 2018 at 11:01 am #63679REDO WITH FLAHERTY INCLUDED AND CORRECT YEARS
I would be interested in how other people would prefer our starting pitching surplus be used the next couple of years.
The candidates are:
Martinez
Wacha
Mikolos
Flaherty
Weaver
Reyes
Gomber
Gant
Poncedeleon
Hudson
Hicks
Helsly
EllisThe catagories are:
Starter
Bullpen
Memphis
Trade
FA (for this excercise let’s say re-signing Wacha ou Mikolos would cost 4/72 and non signing would give us a draft pick.)This would be my pla for the next 2 years
2019
Starters
Martinez
Mikolos
Reyes
Flaherty
GomberBullpen
Hudson
Hicks
PoncedeleonMemphis
Helsley
EllisTrade
Wacha
Weaver
Gant2020
Starters
Martinez
Mikolos (re-sign)
Reyes
Flaherty
GomberMemphis
?Bullpen
Poncedeleon
Hicks
Helsley
HudsonTrade
EllisNOTE: That is a huge amount of trade chips this off season.
August 2, 2018 at 11:03 am #63682I think Greene, Elledge, Gallegos will also factor into the bullpen as soon as next year and Cabrera may be a bullpen/starter arm by next year or 2020.
August 2, 2018 at 11:15 am #63686bccranParticipantMo has picked up some intriguing arms from outside in those 4. Plus
it’s possible that Roberts and Gingery will move quickly through the system and be ready by sometime in 2020.August 2, 2018 at 11:16 am #63687bccranParticipantCabrera Cardinals
August 2, 2018 at 11:19 am #63689Mo has picked up some intriguing arms from outside in those 4. Plus
it’s possible that Roberts and Gingery will move quickly through the system and be ready by sometime in 2020.We certainly can ascertain that the Cards’ internal numbers are telling them to aim for high strikeout arms, especially relievers, and athletes for the field with power potential. I felt the bullpen could be lights out with just the starters at AA/AAA going forward and I think it well could be anyway.
August 2, 2018 at 11:28 am #63690To answer the OP’s question, here’s where I would go:
2019
-
Starters
Martinez
Mikolas
Wacha
Flaherty/Weaver
Reyes-
Bullpen
Gomber
Gant/Hudson
Ponce
Hicks-
Memphis
Helsley
Ellis-
Trade
Flaherty/Weaver
Hudson/Gant
(For a top quality pitcher)
Mikolas in season if selling2020 feels so far away with so many moving parts but for my money I’d probably resign Wacha if he looks like 2018 Wacha, QO Mikolas if not traded, plan on Cmart, Wacha, Reyes in the rotation and build around that. Ponce and Hicks stay in the bullpen for sure and whichever of Hudson and Gant doesn’t get traded as well. Helsley seems like he could be excellent in the bullpen but he could also be a #3 type starter so I might give him a shot if he comes back hot and tears up Memphis next year.
August 2, 2018 at 11:35 am #63692CC-i hesitate to call it a pitching surplus.Carlos Martinez has been injury prone this year.Wacha is dealing with a injury yearly.Counting on Alex Reyes for anything is a risk. Mikolas has been a savior this season but can he co.e close next season.Gomber,Hudson,Poncedeleon all have flashed good talent but all are still young and unproven.Flaherty been fairly good.Weaver had been a disappointment.Gant looks good about every other start.No question that there is a bunch of young talent available…….how to use them depends on the health of the top 5 guys.I see 2 dependable SP(Nikolas,Flaherty)2 Question marks hethwise(Wacha,CMartinez) several rookies(Gpmber,Hudson,Poncedeleon)
A swingman (Gant) and a longshot (Alex Reyes) and a very inconsistent Weaver.August 2, 2018 at 11:42 am #6369514NyquisTParticipant’19
STARTERS
Flaherty
Mikolas
Wacha
Reyes
Hudson
WeaverBULLPEN
Gomber
Poncedeleon
Hicks
Gant
EllisMEMPHIS
HelsleyTRADE
CMartinez (biggest trade chip plus plus should get us the power hitter we sorely need.)August 2, 2018 at 12:14 pm #63697CC,
This past offseason Brian informed me that stl had club control of Mikolas beyond his 2yr contract.
Did new information become available since then to change his expected FA status?August 2, 2018 at 12:22 pm #63698No way I could even mull over the trade of Carioca’s forgotten man….Flaherty. He could easily end up being the very best of the bunch. And at this point with Reyes’ medical track record, I find it very difficult to put him into the starting rotation mix…..to the pen he goes for now. I’m on the fence with Carlos…..but will leave him in for now. 2019 Starters:
Mikolas
Flaherty
Carlos
Wacha
Poncedeleon
HudsonAugust 2, 2018 at 12:30 pm #63699Here at the house we call him Chris (Carpenter) Flaherty.
He’s got that bulldog demeanor and reserves the right to get mad and throw inside.
August 2, 2018 at 12:56 pm #63701That is great to read, Jon!!! We need a guy like Carlos to turn into a Bulldog…..instead of a bullfrog.
August 2, 2018 at 2:14 pm #63708CC,
This past offseason Brian informed me that stl had club control of Mikolas beyond his 2yr contract.
Did new information become available since then to change his expected FA status?I also asked and I understood the answer to be that he would be a FA after 2019
August 2, 2018 at 3:54 pm #63723Brian has reiterated numerous times this year that Mikolas will be a FA after 2019. It is in his contract.
August 4, 2018 at 10:11 am #63919The term “pitching surplus” is an oxymoron in my opinion. There is never enough pitching, much less a surplus. Pitching will work itself out with attrition, and clubs usually are scrambling to add arms by mid-season.
As for St. Louis, assuming everyone is healthy I see the 2019 rotation as Martinez, Mikolas and Wacha, with two guys battling in the Spring for the remaining spots. Someone out of Weaver, Flaherty, Hudson, Gomber and perhaps Gant or Poncedeleon will step up. Maybe you even put Hicks in the mix (nice phrase, “Hicks in the mix”) as a possible starter.
At this point I am not counting on anything from Reyes. He has the look of one of those guys who you look back on and say “if only”. He appears to be plagued with injuries, to the point of where he will never realize the potential he had. Hopefully he can get healthy and put some good years together, but the early trend is not good.
An intriguing thought is a deal for Arenado, where we send Flaherty, Gant and Weaver to Colorado, and roll the dice on 2019 and on. Arenado likely would not sign and see what he could get on the market, so it would be a big gamble and the Rockies might not even go for it, as they have some good young pitchers as well. But it is something to think about.
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