Pitching Surplus

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by bicyclemike bicyclemike 1 year, 2 months ago.

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  • #63660
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I would be interested in how other people would prefer our starting pitching surplus be used the next couple of years.

    The candidates are:
    Martinez
    Wacha
    Mikolos
    Weaver
    Reyes
    Gomber
    Gant
    Poncedeleon
    Hudson
    Hicks
    Helsly
    Ellis

    The catagories are:
    Starter
    Bullpen
    Memphis
    Trade
    FA (for this excercise let’s say re-signing Wacha ou Mikolos would cost 4/72 and non signing would give us a draft pick.)

    This would be my pla for the next 2 years

    2018

    Starters
    Martinez
    Mikolos
    Reyes
    Gant
    Gomber

    Bullpen
    Hudson
    Hicks
    Poncedeleon

    Memphis
    Helsley
    Ellis

    Trade
    Wacha
    Weaver

    2019

    Starters
    Martinez
    Mikolos (re-sign)
    Reyes
    Hudson
    Gomber

    Memphis
    ?

    Bullpen
    Poncedeleon
    Hicks
    Helsley
    Ellis

    Trade
    Gant

    #63673
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    bccran
    Participant

    I think it’s probably safe to assume that Martinez, Wacha, Mikolas, and Reyes will be in the rotation next year barring injury. That leaves ome spot open. My guess is that spot will be won by Flaherty. That would put Weaver,
    Ponce, Gomber, Gant, and Hudson in the bullpen or stretched out at Memphis. Also factoring in will be Helsley and Woodford.

    #63676
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    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly

    Geez I forgot Flaherty! Now I have to redo it! I also have my years wrong! And thanks to this lovely platform I cant even edit it or take it down!

    #63679
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    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly

    REDO WITH FLAHERTY INCLUDED AND CORRECT YEARS

    I would be interested in how other people would prefer our starting pitching surplus be used the next couple of years.

    The candidates are:
    Martinez
    Wacha
    Mikolos
    Flaherty
    Weaver
    Reyes
    Gomber
    Gant
    Poncedeleon
    Hudson
    Hicks
    Helsly
    Ellis

    The catagories are:
    Starter
    Bullpen
    Memphis
    Trade
    FA (for this excercise let’s say re-signing Wacha ou Mikolos would cost 4/72 and non signing would give us a draft pick.)

    This would be my pla for the next 2 years

    2019

    Starters
    Martinez
    Mikolos
    Reyes
    Flaherty
    Gomber

    Bullpen
    Hudson
    Hicks
    Poncedeleon

    Memphis
    Helsley
    Ellis

    Trade
    Wacha
    Weaver
    Gant

    2020

    Starters
    Martinez
    Mikolos (re-sign)
    Reyes
    Flaherty
    Gomber

    Memphis
    ?

    Bullpen
    Poncedeleon
    Hicks
    Helsley
    Hudson

    Trade
    Ellis

    NOTE: That is a huge amount of trade chips this off season.

    #63682
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
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    Paid - Annual

    I think Greene, Elledge, Gallegos will also factor into the bullpen as soon as next year and Cabrera may be a bullpen/starter arm by next year or 2020.

    #63686
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    bccran
    Participant

    Mo has picked up some intriguing arms from outside in those 4. Plus
    it’s possible that Roberts and Gingery will move quickly through the system and be ready by sometime in 2020.

    #63687
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    bccran
    Participant

    Cabrera Cardinals

    #63689
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
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    Mo has picked up some intriguing arms from outside in those 4. Plus
    it’s possible that Roberts and Gingery will move quickly through the system and be ready by sometime in 2020.

    We certainly can ascertain that the Cards’ internal numbers are telling them to aim for high strikeout arms, especially relievers, and athletes for the field with power potential. I felt the bullpen could be lights out with just the starters at AA/AAA going forward and I think it well could be anyway.

    #63690
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    To answer the OP’s question, here’s where I would go:

    2019

      Starters

    Martinez
    Mikolas
    Wacha
    Flaherty/Weaver
    Reyes

      Bullpen

    Gomber
    Gant/Hudson
    Ponce
    Hicks

      Memphis

    Helsley
    Ellis

      Trade

    Flaherty/Weaver
    Hudson/Gant
    (For a top quality pitcher)
    Mikolas in season if selling

    2020 feels so far away with so many moving parts but for my money I’d probably resign Wacha if he looks like 2018 Wacha, QO Mikolas if not traded, plan on Cmart, Wacha, Reyes in the rotation and build around that. Ponce and Hicks stay in the bullpen for sure and whichever of Hudson and Gant doesn’t get traded as well. Helsley seems like he could be excellent in the bullpen but he could also be a #3 type starter so I might give him a shot if he comes back hot and tears up Memphis next year.

    #63692
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    Bw52
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    CC-i hesitate to call it a pitching surplus.Carlos Martinez has been injury prone this year.Wacha is dealing with a injury yearly.Counting on Alex Reyes for anything is a risk. Mikolas has been a savior this season but can he co.e close next season.Gomber,Hudson,Poncedeleon all have flashed good talent but all are still young and unproven.Flaherty been fairly good.Weaver had been a disappointment.Gant looks good about every other start.No question that there is a bunch of young talent available…….how to use them depends on the health of the top 5 guys.I see 2 dependable SP(Nikolas,Flaherty)2 Question marks hethwise(Wacha,CMartinez) several rookies(Gpmber,Hudson,Poncedeleon)
    A swingman (Gant) and a longshot (Alex Reyes) and a very inconsistent Weaver.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Avatar Bw52.
    • This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Avatar Bw52.
    #63695
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    14NyquisT
    Moderator

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    ’19
    STARTERS
    Flaherty
    Mikolas
    Wacha
    Reyes
    Hudson
    Weaver

    BULLPEN
    Gomber
    Poncedeleon
    Hicks
    Gant
    Ellis

    MEMPHIS
    Helsley

    TRADE
    CMartinez (biggest trade chip plus plus should get us the power hitter we sorely need.)

    #63697
    jj-cf-stl
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Free

    CC,
    This past offseason Brian informed me that stl had club control of Mikolas beyond his 2yr contract.
    Did new information become available since then to change his expected FA status?

    #63698
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    PugsleyAddams
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    No way I could even mull over the trade of Carioca’s forgotten man….Flaherty. He could easily end up being the very best of the bunch. And at this point with Reyes’ medical track record, I find it very difficult to put him into the starting rotation mix…..to the pen he goes for now. I’m on the fence with Carlos…..but will leave him in for now. 2019 Starters:

    Mikolas
    Flaherty
    Carlos
    Wacha
    Poncedeleon
    Hudson

    #63699
    jj-cf-stl
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Free

    Here at the house we call him Chris (Carpenter) Flaherty.

    He’s got that bulldog demeanor and reserves the right to get mad and throw inside.

    #63701
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    PugsleyAddams
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    That is great to read, Jon!!! We need a guy like Carlos to turn into a Bulldog…..instead of a bullfrog.

    #63708
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    CariocaCardinal
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    CC,
    This past offseason Brian informed me that stl had club control of Mikolas beyond his 2yr contract.
    Did new information become available since then to change his expected FA status?

    I also asked and I understood the answer to be that he would be a FA after 2019

    #63723
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    gscottar
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    Brian has reiterated numerous times this year that Mikolas will be a FA after 2019. It is in his contract.

    #63919
    bicyclemike
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    The term “pitching surplus” is an oxymoron in my opinion. There is never enough pitching, much less a surplus. Pitching will work itself out with attrition, and clubs usually are scrambling to add arms by mid-season.

    As for St. Louis, assuming everyone is healthy I see the 2019 rotation as Martinez, Mikolas and Wacha, with two guys battling in the Spring for the remaining spots. Someone out of Weaver, Flaherty, Hudson, Gomber and perhaps Gant or Poncedeleon will step up. Maybe you even put Hicks in the mix (nice phrase, “Hicks in the mix”) as a possible starter.

    At this point I am not counting on anything from Reyes. He has the look of one of those guys who you look back on and say “if only”. He appears to be plagued with injuries, to the point of where he will never realize the potential he had. Hopefully he can get healthy and put some good years together, but the early trend is not good.

    An intriguing thought is a deal for Arenado, where we send Flaherty, Gant and Weaver to Colorado, and roll the dice on 2019 and on. Arenado likely would not sign and see what he could get on the market, so it would be a big gamble and the Rockies might not even go for it, as they have some good young pitchers as well. But it is something to think about.

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