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LINEUP:
C Ted Simmons (7)
1B Albert Pujols (3)
2B Rogers Hornsby (2)
3B Ken Boyer (6)
SS Ozzie Smith (8)
LF Lou Brock (1)
CF Stan Musial (4)
RF Enos Slaughter (5)BENCH:
C Yadier Molina
IF Frankie Frisch
IF Red Schoendienst
UT Vince Coleman
OF Joe Medwick
OF Jim Edmonds
OF Willie McGeeSTARTING ROTATION:
RHP Bob Gibson
RHP Dizzy Dean
LHP Harry Brecheen
RHP Jesse Haines
RHP Chris CarpenterBULLPEN:
RHP Bruce Sutter
RHP Lee Smith
RHP Adam Wainwright
LHP Max Lanier
LHP Howie PolletAlright guy/gals how’d I do?
Looks good.
Is it a best one season list or an all-time greats list? I don’t know about putting Musial in CF either.
I did an all-time team list with the greatest “seasons” ever.
I had
2B – Rogers Hornsby – ’22 (MVP)
LF – Ducky Medwick – ’37 (MVP)
RF – Stan Musial – ’48 (MVP)
1B – Albert Pujols – ’03 (2nd MVP)
DH – Mark McGwire – ’98 (2nd MVP)
3B – Joe Torre – ’71 (MVP)
CF – Jim Edmonds – ’04 (5th MVP)
CA – Yadier Molina – ’12 (4th MVP)
SS – Ozzie Smith – ’87 (2nd MVP)With the bench consisting of
(no DH) McGwire
CA – Ted Simmmons – ’75 (6th MVP)
OF – Enos Slaughter – ’42 (2nd MVP)
OF – Lou Brock – ’74 (2nd MVP)
1B – Johnny Mize – ’40 (2nd MVP)
3B – Scott Rolen – ’04 (4th MVP)Rolen probably deserves 3B over Torre, who could also catch too. Medwick is kind of redundant with Musial and Pujols, but he had such a good season compared to say Slaughter or Brock (or Mize or McGwire) if you were to move Pujols off 1B. Also, Boyer is left off the list.
Pitching-wise, I had Gibson ’68, Dean ’34, and Cooper ’42 ~ all MVPs as well as Carpenter ’05 (Cy) and Wainwright ’09 (2nd Cy)
I was basing my list on all time stats, not just one season. If doing off one season only this is a completely different roster.
I needed someone to play CF if I was going to start Brock who has no business playing CF lol. I posted this same roster on CardsTalk but with Brock playing CF and Musial LF.
For Pads, Albert was still primarily a LF in 2003.
I don’t see a lot of issues with the list. I don’t have a lot of knowledge of players prior to my time, but I’d probably add Scott Rolen to the bench and Ray Lankford over Vince Coleman.
My starting lineup is the same as BlackHills except for the outfield. I go Medwick-Edmonds-Musial left to right in the outfield.
On the bench I would probably put Torre in place of Coleman, and possibly Curt Flood ahead of McGee.
John Tudor would be in there somewhere as well, and Mort Cooper at his best was really good. I would probably replace Lanier with Tudor and Smith with Cooper. With a franchise like the Cardinals, it is tough to narrow down to 25. You almost need a 30-man roster to capture everyone who deserves first-team status.
On Pads “MVP” team, a couple of other good ones are Orlando Cepeda, the unanimous 1967 MVP, and Ken Boyer, the 1964 MVP. Those two have additional clout (so to speak) in their awards as they both lead their teams to World Championships. And by “lead”, they did that not only with their on-field play, but as clubhouse leaders as well.
Who would the manager be?
Red
Tony
Whitey
Frisch
Street
SouthworthA lot of good names to choose from.
I debated McGee and Flood for my final positional spot. I was surprised to see how similar both players were considering I never got to watch Flood play. I also debated on finding a spot for Cooper, Tudor and Forsch. And yeah you would need a 30 man roster or so to accommodate the Cardinals history.
Another version of creating a roster beside the one I compiled and the one Pads did would be creating a roster during my lifetime (1985-2018) which would looks vastly different.
Frankie Frisch should be in the mix somewhere. He is a Cardinal legend and in 1925 he was obtained from the NYG for Hornsby. A member of the gas-house gang and player/manager for the 1934 World Champions. He hit .312 in 11 seasons for STL, 6 of them as player/manager.
1931 – NL MVP and led the league in SB in three seasons.
Scott Rolen’s 2004 is probably among the most underrated great seasons of all time. This is likely due to him sharing the spotlight with Pujols and Edmonds as MVP candidates on that same team, but no doubt that he was the best player on the team that year. To add some perspective, his 9.2 WAR would rank 5th among 3B…ever! He had 30 defensive runs saved, an insane number for a third baseman. Looking up some other career bests:
Manny Machado 35
Nolan Arenado 30
Adrian Beltre 27
Ken Boyer 17
Mike Schmidt 20
Brooks Robinson 33Now, defensive stats can be wonky in the olden days but still…that’s in the company of the best fielders of all time
BTW, Boyer’s 64 MVP season was a 5.2 win year and Torre’s 71 was 5.9 (he was a -25 fielder!).
Names to examine:
Jim Bottomley
Chick Hafey
Walker Cooper
The Wild Horse of the Osage, Pepper Martin Hit 500 and 385 in two World Series.
Tim McCarver
Bill White, 7-time Gold Glover
Steve Carlton, was good when he was with the Cards. We traded him for Wise? (Also traded Cuellar for Whisenant, ouch)(two makeups for the Broglio/Brock trade)
Look at Brock and Flood together, tandem at the top of the lineup.I take Yadi over Simmons. Simmons was a very good hitter but I believe that Whitey took one look at his defense and decided it was not enough. Simmons traded to Brewers and Porter came in from Kansas City. I believe that he offered first base to Simmons be he said no thanks.
As for managers I don’t think it is even close. Whitey by a big margin. Had it all. Good eye for winning players. Great tactician, and great at keeping everyone fresh and utilizing young talent.
Had DeWitt purchased the team when Augie Busch steped away I believe the Cardinals would have had a dynasty for decades. Would have helped as well had Whitey not had such a passion for fishing. He may also in his short stint as a General Manager been one of the Cardinal’s best. The winter where he picked up Ozzie and others may have been the most significant off season ever by the Cardinals. I think it may have been 1980-81 and Ozzie came in 82 so I may be wrong on the winter where he did the kind of off season job that we longed for last off season.
Testing – for some reason I can no longer post to this thread, so this is a test to see if it uploads.
Hmmm, that worked. Not sure why my other attempts has failed. I commented on the Cuellar trade that RememberDiz brought up. Cuellar was actually traded along with Ron Taylor for Hal Woodeshick and Chuck Taylor.
I went on more about that deal and about Cuellar, but could not get it to post so I will stop here and see if this goes.
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