May 16, 2020 at 9:17 am #128778
Maybe a good topic to argue about. Both teams loaded with talent and I have to go with the 67ers. Any Card team with Maris on it would appeal to me.
So what do you think?May 16, 2020 at 10:14 am #128783stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
My initial thought was that the 2004 Cards probably had the better lineup and the 1967 Cards probably had better pitching. When I looked up the info, the 2004 Cards had an edge in hitting relative to league (107 OPS+ vs 101 for the 1967 squad). If you remove pitcher stats, the gap narrows a bit (114 for the 2004 Cards and 109 for the 1967 Cards). The 2004 squad was first in the NL in batting average, 4th in OBP, 1st in slugging and 1st in OPS. The 1967 Cards were 2nd in the NL in batting average, OBP, slugging and OPS.
On the pitching side, the 2004 Card, surprisingly, have a slight edge as well, with an ERA+ of 113 vs 108 for the 1967 Cards. The 2004 staff was 2nd in ERA for the NL, 2nd in hits allowed, 1st in runs allowed, 2nd in walks allowed and 10th in strikeouts. The 1967 staff was 2nd in the NL in ERA (are you sensing a pattern for this team?), 2nd in hits allowed, 2nd in runs allowed and…3rd in walks allowed (ooh, almost had it!)
On defense, the 1967 Cards had 140 errors and a .978 fielding percentage, good for 6th and 4th in the NL, respectively. They allowed only 45 stolen bases all year, with 48 caught stealing. The 2004 squad committed 97 errors and had a .985 fielding percentage, both of which were 6th in baseball. They allowed 53 stolen bases, with 29 caught stealing.
On the stats, the 2004 squad looks like the stronger team. On the field, the 67 team won the Series, which is a point in its favor. So I guess it comes down to intangibles. You’ve got two of the toughest competitors in history on opposite sides, and who wouldn’t love to see Gibby vs Albert in a late and close situation with the game on the line? How about Carpenter (assuming he’s allowed to be healthy) facing off against Cepeda, Mccarver, Brock, Flood and Maris? Who would make the key defensive play in center to steal a win from the other team?
If I had to make a prediction, the 2004 team (if Carpenter is healthy) wins a 7 game series. That was as good a team as I’ve seen as a Cards fan, and probably one of the top 5-10 squads of the 21st century so far.May 16, 2020 at 7:24 pm #128836bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
That 2004 team was a powerhouse. My hesitation with going with them was the way they laid down in the World Series. If there is some intangible factor where you can program in being “ready and able” in the biggest series of the year, then I go with the ‘67 squad. The ‘04 team tanked when the chips were down.
Course as mentioned, had Carpenter been available maybe 2004 turns out different.May 16, 2020 at 7:36 pm #128838
BikeMike? How about a Strat-O-Matic Replay here? The ’67 Cardinals vs the ’04 Cardinals. Seven game world series format.
r/Esteemed RatMay 17, 2020 at 7:19 am #128858
How about a Strat-O-Matic Replay here? The ’67 Cardinals vs the ’04 Cardinals. Seven game world series format.
That sounds great.May 18, 2020 at 10:53 am #128929
That sounds great.
I could do this if enough posters showed some interest.
My gut feeling is that the ’04 Cardinals would simply have too much firepower for the ’67 Cardinals. I would predict the ’04 Cardinals in five games.
r/Esteemed RatMay 18, 2020 at 1:54 pm #128934gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
I would take the ’85 Cardinals against either of those two teams.May 18, 2020 at 3:15 pm #128938
I’d take the ’04 Cardinals for both the ’67 and ’85 versions. Average/HR/Runs Scored below.
1967 – .263/115/695
1985 – .264/87/747
2004 – .278/214/855
Granted the ’67 and ’85 Cardinals might have had better starting pitching – maybe.
Granted the ’85 Cardinals had speed and defense.
But I am afraid the ’04 Cardinals would just slug the ’67 and ’85 Cardinals big time.
The only other player on the ’67 Cardinals and ’85 Cardinals that might come close to their offensive equal would be Willie McGee’s .353 average in 1985.
r/Esteemed RatMay 18, 2020 at 5:22 pm #128951gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
The three teams were built differently but they all three knew how to win.
2004 – 105
1985 – 101
1967- 101May 18, 2020 at 7:08 pm #128957bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
Sounds good on a sim replay. Maybe I will do one using Action PC.
I recall before the actual 2004 World Series, Tim McCarver was asked about that team and his ‘67 club. He said the ‘04 team would kill the ‘67 team, although Bob Gibson might be the equalizer.May 19, 2020 at 6:08 am #128971
Hmmmmm…. seven games (if necessary) Gibson starts three of them. ’67 Cards would defy all of the metrics and stats with intangibles. That was a very gutsy team with a lot of heart and soul.
Tim McCarver was asked about that team and his ‘67 club. He said the ‘04 team would kill the ‘67 team,
Another reason I’d pick the 67ers
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