October 15, 2018 at 11:40 pm #72494SoonerinNCParticipantPaid - Annual
The Brewers have achieved great results from players acquired from other organizations.
I compared 10 top position players and six pitchers using Baseball Reference WAR ratings on the following:
Highest WAR with previous teams and their time with the Brewers. Of the 11 performers, 68.8% of the acquisitions had higher WAR with the Brewers than the best with their former teams. Exceptions are Cain, Kratz, Chacin, Miley and Jennings. The total highest WAR with Milwukee (48.4) is 84.7% higher than the highest WAR with their previous team (26.2).
15 of the 16 players had equal or better WAR in 2018 than the year before they were acquired. Chacin was the only one with a better WAR the year before acquired than this year (2.5 to 2.0) Kratz and Jennings had equal WAR (.1 and .3) the year before acauisition and 2018.
The Milwaukee WAR for the 16 performers in 2018 (31.7) was 157.7 higher for the same players the year before acauisition (12.3)
The high WAR while with Milwaukee for the 16 players (48.4) is 293.5% higher than the WAR by the players the year before acauisition (12.3)
Again apology for the length of this post.
October 16, 2018 at 6:03 am #72498
- This topic was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by SoonerinNC.
Tanking seems like an easy strategy to getting back to winning. They traded Carlos Gomez for Josh Hader for instance. Aguilar came out of nowhere much like Jose Martinez.
He traded for Yelich and signed Cain, we traded for Ozuna and signed Fowler. It happens I suppose.
I thought their patchwork pitching would doom them, but they held it together all year.October 16, 2018 at 6:04 am #72499
Has any team went the tanking route and not made it back for a mini-dynasty? The Reds are next in our division but they’ve been doing it for a while now.October 16, 2018 at 6:31 am #72500stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
I don’t feel like the Brewers tanked like some of the other teams. But they did smartly move some of their more sellable assets and built a very solid team that plays above their talent level, sort of like the Cards did for a few years.October 16, 2018 at 7:48 am #72502
He traded for Yelich and signed Cain, we traded for Ozuna and signed Fowler. It happens I suppose.
This sentence says more about the last two seasons than any other I’ve seen. I’m not a Monday morning quarterback nor do I like hearing “what if”. The thing is I can’t help but wonder about what Pads put into words. You can chalk it up to bad luck, but not bad timing. The poor timing is on our FO. They just have a tendency to jump into things… with blinders on.October 16, 2018 at 9:34 am #72516
The Brewers definitely tanked. They firstly fired their GM and had three straight nearly 90 loss seasons.
Secondly, they traded Gomez, Lucroy, Lind, Davis, Ramirez, Segura, Parra, and let Gennett go. That’s their entire starting lineup from 2015 other than Braun. They also traded Fiers, Gallardo, Cotts, Thornburg, Jeffress, Smith, and K-Rod. They were unable to trade Lohse, Garza, and Peralta due to ineffectivity.October 16, 2018 at 9:55 am #72519gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
I don’t consider the Brewers as tankers in the same sense as the Cubs and Astros did, maybe because the Brewers don’t have the budget the other two teams have therefore they have to be smarter. The two keys for them recently is they had the patience to wait the Marlins out on Yelich and they decided to go all in on their bullpen and not worry about the rotation. Both moves have paid off in spades.October 16, 2018 at 1:56 pm #72543mspaidParticipantFree
I dob’t know if the GM for the Brewers is a genius but he is certainly smarter than Mo.October 16, 2018 at 2:02 pm #72544858booyahParticipantFree
Point being is the Cubs and Brewers did more at both deadlines than we did. That was the difference in us making the playoffs. They went out and made it happen and we didn’t.October 16, 2018 at 4:12 pm #72552thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
they gambled on their pen and it paid off, they gambled on some guys playing positions they dont play and it paid off
I have won poker hands with a high card 7 in my hand paired with a 5, sometimes things just work out
and it seems to have worked out well so far…however, no one will care in the end if they lose to the Dodgers though…
Let’s not act like getting Cain and Yelich was prophetic though, true adding to an OF that looked full already was a head scratcher, but Cain and Yelich are top players Cain coming off injury was solid and Yelich was trending up already…with the unknown of Braun and a 2nd year for Thames…and Santana being streaky and the kids they moved (Phillips and Brinson) being seemingly limited in impact…even adding them wasnt THAT weird of a get
Cardinals didnt have a chance at Yelich from what seems to hav been reported…Fish werent moving Yelich until Ozuna was gone right? Cardinals lost out on Stanton, wanted an impact player…and Ozuna after his monster year was no slouch and checked a lot of boxes…you have to look hard at him, and if Yelich wasnt on the table, nor the belief that Yelich woudl be as good as he was…i dont think anyone including the BRewers predicted he was going to be THAT good this year…and we were DEEP in the OF depth on the farm we coudlnt go for 2 of them it seems…
nevertheless, Brewers are still playing, Cubs arent, Yankees arent lots of good teams arent playing right now… they took some gambles, some guys lived up to the hype and few played well below their expectations, they have enough firepower to keep throwing guys at positions when somethign doesnt go right and that bullpen is a monster…
They got better at the deadlien through bringing in outside talent who may be gone…win right now… but they were in a solid positio nto win right now…Cardinals got better by looking within and made an impressive run, a run that even if it did not work out woudl not hurt them going forward into the next yeear
It may ultimately pay off for the BRewers…it would be a great story for the franchise and the GM…but watching how the Red Sox and AStros and Yankees even tore through the AL you might question whether it was fools gold to go all in for the ultimate shot to fight aginst teams which seem to be in far better positions based on the regular season stats…but hey, a World Series appearance is never a bad thing, it’s a shot at the ultimate prize and on any given day or series baseball is still baseball…
I cant help but root for them at this point…it’s a much better storyline than the others.
Our current Gm has 2 WS championships and 4 WS appearances right? You cant say our guy is bad with that kind of record, even with some more recent swings and misses….or i guess you can, but that attitude IMO gets you in trouble real quick unless you have unlimited funds to pay to make your problems go away like BOS, NYY or LADOctober 16, 2018 at 4:50 pm #72557Euro DandyParticipantFree
Our current Gm has 2 WS championships and 4 WS appearances right?
With Mo serving as GM, the Cards won two NL pennants and one WS.October 16, 2018 at 6:19 pm #72561jj-cf-stlParticipantFree
The 2018 Brewers accumulated 39.6 bWAR.
36.2 of that total was earned by players who were obtained from outside the Mil organization (91.4%). I find that to be a startling %.
Braun has been with the org 12yrs. The second longest tenured players have been Brewers for four yrs.October 16, 2018 at 6:28 pm #72562jj-cf-stlParticipantFree
Fyi, the gm stearns is one year younger than Braun.October 16, 2018 at 6:58 pm #72565
Nope…..our Birds could have had Yelich if they had not been so darn enamored with Ozuna’s one big offensive year(2017). They were both sitting there on the shelve staring Mo smack dab in the face when Mo said “I’ll take the gimpy armed one with the pretty colored armband”. These things are easy to call after the fact, but even a clown like me knew we screwed up immediately after hearing that we acquired Ozuna instead of Yelich. Some players have “WINNER” tattood all over them. This intangible label has always shinned brighter around Christian Yelich than it has around Marcell Ozuna. It’s a crying shame our GM does not recognize these things.October 16, 2018 at 9:04 pm #72582Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
Goold has rather emphatically stated on numerous occasions that Yelich was not made available until after the Cardinals acquired Ozuna. Of course, as a media member, he wasn’t involved directly, so is likely sharing what the Cards told him.October 16, 2018 at 9:33 pm #72586
They were talking about Yelich being on the open market here on a local sports radio show a good two weeks prior to the Yelich-Ozuna trades. Now that doesn’t necessarily make it factual, but with the way Miami was liberally shopping their players, I think the odds are pretty fair that if the Cards had wanted Yelich they could have landed him. They certainly had the youthful resources to satisfy Miami’s desires.October 16, 2018 at 9:42 pm #72588stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
The cost of Yelich likely would have been so high as to be considered unpalatable by much of our fan base even at the time, let alone with the benefit of hindsight. I could easily see a package of Flaherty, Kelly, Hicks and a lower player like Oviedo being the price tag, if not more. Ozuna was far, far cheaper. Fair or not, that was likely a big deciding factor.October 17, 2018 at 9:16 am #72615bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
Ozuna was far, far cheaper. Fair or not, that was likely a big deciding factor.
After one season, this is a classic example of “you get what you pay for”. We will see how it looks next year at this time.
As for the Brewers and their success, sometimes it just happens. It does not necessarily mean one GM is smarter or better than another. Sometimes things just work out, even when you think they may not. Over the long term we can reasonably judge the merits of one GM versus another, but it involves a lot of subjectivity due to uneven playing fields with market locale, resources, etc.
As for Yelich being available, as has been noted the Marlins were cleaning house. If the Cardinals did not at least approach Jeter & Co. about a deal for Yelich, they did not conduct the proper due diligence on dealing with them. Of course they had their sights set on Stanton, but hopefully had contingent plans for acquiring Ozuna and Yelich, and settled on Ozuna as the best, or possibly only alternative at the time.October 17, 2018 at 9:25 am #72618
Nope…..our Birds could have had Yelich if they had not been so darn enamored with Ozuna’s one big offensive year(2017). They were both sitting there on the shelve staring Mo smack dab in the face when Mo said “I’ll take the gimpy armed one with the pretty colored armband”. These things are easy to call after the fact, but even a clown like me knew we screwed up immediately after hearing that we acquired Ozuna instead of Yelich. Some players have “WINNER” tattood all over them. This intangible label has always shinned brighter around Christian Yelich than it has around Marcell Ozuna. It’s a crying shame our GM does not recognize these things.
This deserves repeating.
Pugs…. one of your best posts.October 17, 2018 at 10:19 am #72627gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
We all knew Yelich was good but I don’t think anyone thought he would be MVP good, not even the Brewers. I can’t really criticize the FO for not doing the Yelich deal because giving up Flaherty, Hicks, Kelly, and whoever else would have seen like robbery at the time.
What I can criticize the FO for is going ahead with Ozuna deal knowing full well he was damaged goods. That was irresponsible and a separate issue from the Yelich deal.October 17, 2018 at 10:27 am #72629
And I certainly haven’t had many quality ones….but thanks Nyquist! I think as a poster my batting average is not only yet to reach the Mendoza Line, but may well be flirting with the Fowler Line….but I show up every day, so points have to be sent my way for that. Yep Nyquist, I remember it like it was yesterday when I first heard the news of the Ozuna acquisition; I was sitting on the can at 5:30am reading the Wisconsin State Journal sports page and I about jumped out of my seat while twice shouting the words “why not Yelich…..why not Yelich”!!October 17, 2018 at 11:54 am #72635
“why not Yelich…..why not Yelich”!!
Its not fair to say that we could have had Yelich, because that didn’t happen. The FO probably was thinking power-guy in the cleanup hole. But the knowing of the bum wing is tough to swallow. Now I’m just saying…. we wound up with an opening day outfield of Ozuna-Pham-Fowler, I guess back then it looked adequate. Who knew that the whole thing would be blown to smithereens.
The Brewers will be as tough next year, led by Yelich…. so there’s that as well.October 17, 2018 at 12:32 pm #72637
I’m still not that upset with the Ozuna deal. No he didn’t have an MVP season but he had a good second half and with free agency after next year I expect a solid campaign this year. None of the prospects we sent exactly set the world afire their first year in Florida and we cleared precious spots on our 40 man so San Diego can’t set up a buffet in front of our system for the Rule 5. Don’t we have the option to offer Ozuna the QO after the year? We can get back a good pick.October 17, 2018 at 12:43 pm #72639
And he provided that .280/23 HR season at a very fair rate of 9mill. That is not a bad price for a supposedly down year. And if he leaves then you in theory have “his money” off the books and therefore available for someone else. Yes, Dewitt opened his precious pursestrings like so many deny ever being possible.October 17, 2018 at 12:47 pm #72640
Sierra hit .260 in minors, under .200 in mlb last year. All three pitchers had Era’s in upper 3’s in minors. Yes, in retrospect Yelich would have been ideal but you make the trade when it become available, not a year later with a do-over.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 5 months ago by Mrperkins.
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