- This topic has 17 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Donovan 2B
Walker RF
Goldy 1B
Arenado 3B
Conteras C
O’Neill LF
Carlson CF
Gorman, Nootbarr, Yepez or Burleson DH
Edman SSThat has the potential to be one of the best lineups the Cardinals have ever had. And you haven’t even mentioned Gomez.
That’s a good looking line-up, but the following is the best one I can remember for the Redbirds and was the starting line-up for Game 1 of the ’04 WS at Fenway Park. We all know what happened after a 105 W regular season that consisted of basically the same batting order. Can’t really offer up the excuse of Chris Carpenter going down in mid Sept. with arm trouble. When a team hits .190 in 4 games, all 4 of those games are going to be tough to win. Similar to what happened in the final 2 games of ’22.
Renteria SS
Walker RF
Pujols 1B
Rolen 3B
Edmonds CF
Sanders DH
Womack 2B
Matheny C
Taguchi LFFirst two-thirds of that lineup was dynamite, Andujar. That bottom third, though. Not much firepower.
Here’s a 2023 lineup, with projected OPS+ (average of Marcel the monkey and the Steamer forecast):
Noot 123 OPS+
Donovan 123
Goldy 143
Arenado 129
Yepez 122
Contreras 119
O’Neill 119
Carlson 114
Edman 105(Gorman is 111 and Burleson 110, in case of injury.)
The core of this year’s lineup can’t compare to your MV3 battering ram, but this season’s depth means every inning has the potential for a multi-run rally. And that’s pretty cool.
Those projections for the lineup are why I believe the Cardinals were quick to pivot, and I think the Cardinals are better off for having made the pivot.
Yeah, that’s a good looking line-up, BR. However, if O’Neill can stay on the field and flash a glimpse of ’21, I think I’d have him slotted behind Arenado. Yepez/Gorman, or possibly Burleson getting the DH slot, but I’d have Contreras placed behind the DH in the 7th slot. The Nootz and Eddie will probably swap places a handful of times in accordance with who’s taking the best rips at any point during the season. At any rate, I’ve no question as to whether the ’23 ballclub will be able to push runs across HP. Plenty of good hitters on the roster. Let’s just hope the Redbird manager doesn’t decide to slot Donovan at 5th or even clean-up…Haha!
Yep, I never quite understood the Donovan batting at #5 thing. But he’s sure fine at #1 or #2. If Walker’s ready, it’ll be interesting where they plug him into the lineup.
And Albert Pujols in the 2 slot. It was as if one of the unfriendly baseball gypsies intentionally dropped a monkey wrench into the gearbox. At any rate, I’ve never seen Walker play, but he certainly looks goos on the paper playing field. I’m reasonably certain I’ll get a look at him in some ST games. My view is that if does good, place the young man on the Big League roster and let him rip.
I’m reasonably certain I’ll get a look at him in some ST games.
Ah, we’re already talking about games? Get your MLB.tv contracts finalized early.
I look for Goldy to fall back quite a bit from the MVP form of 2022. But I think O’Neill and Carlson will be much better, and would take the over on Contreras if we use that 119 OPS+ number. Also maybe we see a surprise guy jump in there like Walker or Burleson. Heck, maybe Nooty.
I’ve had the same thought, Bikemike. Only an unreasonable person could expect a repeat of .317/35/115, but I expect him to continue to be the foremost well rounded bat in the line-up. My primary hope is that his annual slump doesn’t occur as the Redbirds begin high stakes games. I think Contreras will feature his best season with the bat to date and that should compensate for not only any drop off in production from Goldy, but also the absence of Albert in the line-up. And if O’Neill can stay on the field and provide another power threat, the Cardinal line-up will most definitely offer up some serious headaches for opposing pitchers. I’m not at all worried about the ’23 edition’s ability to push runs across HP.
“Yep, I never quite understood the Donovan batting at #5 thing. But he’s sure fine at #1 or #2.”
I think Marmol’s reasoning was that Donovan had hit so well with men on base, that the 5th spot might be natural despite his lack of extra base power. Kinda like how Tommy Herr was an excellent RBI man for a year, back in the day. I have lambasted Marmol for numerous reasons (he’s a bad manager, folks) but Donovan in an RBI spot was not a loony move at all. Not with these numbers.
Donovan bases empty: .722 OPS
With men on base: .864
Runners in scoring position: .994As opposed to when Brendan hit leadoff: .220 with a .649 OPS. Bleccch.
I’d hit him second, right behind Noot, who has excelled when hitting first (.814 career OPS) and who also has hit much better after taking the first pitch — a skill that comes in handy for a leadoff man, more than any other batting order spot.
Nootbaar in at-bats when he swung at the first pitch: .614 OPS
Noot in all AB’s when he did NOT offer at first pitch: .832I understand the comparison to Herr, but the key words are, “excellent RBI man for a year.” I don’t recall Donovan ever being placed at #5 in the order during the regular season and I certainly don’t recall Albert Pujols occupying the #2 slot. Donovan was swapped out of the #2 slot with none other than Albert Pujols from the #5 slot for the two most important contests of the season. And the line-up decisions were merely the tip of the iceberg in the entire totality of the veritable catastrophe. I never harbored any significant issues with Marmol as a manager until the first game of the ’22 post-season, but the inane line-up decisions and numerous other examples of lunacy during that game convinced me of your intepretation of him as a “bad manager.” Plain and simple.
Donovan was swapped out of the #2 slot with none other than Albert Pujols from the #5 slot for the two most important contests of the season.
It reeks of the organization getting too cute with metrics.
Maybe so, and although I’m certainly no authority on the “metrics” concept, I imagine it’s probably a viable method for success over the long haul of a regular season. But during a short post-season series, I genuinely believe that the laws of average don’t carry much weight. In my estimation, the approach should center more on conventional concepts such as the eye test applied in real time and devoting attention to what’s happening at that very moment on the field of play.
It reeks of the organization getting too cute with metrics.
Of course it was. As Dave Roberts let slip out to the public during the 2021 postseason a lot of modern front offices control a lot more than we think they do.
In my estimation, the approach should center more on conventional concepts such as the eye test applied in real time and devoting attention to what’s happening at that very moment on the field of play.
Nah, cause then you might get some manager in a playoff game saying something like “Quintana is still looking so great today I’m not taking him out yet.” Thinking like that screws up the lockdown bullpen’s rhythm and ability to close out the win.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.