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I’m not able to agree with that. I think guys who have been getting it done effectively on the field for many years probably did not choke. A rookie manager who is surely getting his chain jerked from upstairs effed up, as did those jerking his chain. That is a far more likely scenario.
But managing of the bullpen was a choke job.
Marmol definitely stayed with Helsley way too long but my biggest beef with that is that why did the medical team clear him to play if he was that compromised and why did Helsley say he was good to go when he obviously wasn’t. Quit trying to be a hero and be honest.
A rookie manager who is surely getting his chain jerked from upstairs effed up, as did those jerking his chain. That is a far more likely scenario.
That I agree with. The spreadsheet guys wouldn’t be able to do that with Whitey or Tony.
Quit trying to be a hero and be honest.
I get your point gscott, but always take what the player says with a grain of salt and never blame them for wanting to compete. They think they are being honest in that moment. “I’ll get back on track next pitch.” It’s in the DNA of a competitor’s attitude. What’s the saying about pitchers, if they don’t have the competitive mindset to keep going, you don’t want them out there to begin with?
Plus it’s a tough one for the medical staff. Med issues aren’t an exact science and risk is part of the decision. I think it was confirmed Helsley did feel good enough when he entered the game, but that changed. The “fog of war” happened and that’s when bad decisions are made by ground level combatants. Leadership (i.e., the trained decision-makers) has to step up then.
I’d also like to know what Yadi was thinking or relayed to the bench while the meltdown was in progress. I don’t recall if it was ever reported.
I don’t disagree with what you are saying Euro. You want competitive players but you also don’t want someone out there who is going to hurt the team. After reading your post it confirms to me that mistakes were made throughout the process. The medical staff gave a green light that probably should have been yellow, Helsley probably wasn’t completely candid, and the dugout was too slow to pull the trigger.
I should also give credit to stl25 who said all throughout September that the Phillies would be tough in a short series because of Wheeler and Nola and he was right. The Phillies struggled in September but they turned it on when they had to. We countered their two aces with Q and Mikolas, two solid pitchers but not aces. That is a front office problem.
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