February 17, 2018 at 6:51 am #44029
If the Cards stick to a bench of 4 position players, barring an injury, is there anything Luke Voit can do in Spring training to make the team? Of the 4, one will be a catcher, and one a reserve infielder. Given how Martinez hit last year, I would think he would have to hit less than .100 this Spring to be considered at risk of losing his roster spot. So assuming Martinez makes the team, is there a scenario under which the Cardinals would let Martinez be the 4th outfielder and also keep Voit?
I dont see it. Even if Voit has a 1.500 OPS in Spring training, I think it would take Bader, O’Neil, and probably even Garcia showing they weren’t big league ready. Even it that scenario the team might go out and get a proven 4th outfielder. I guess the only way I could see it happening would be if Martinez showed dramatic improvement as an outfielder which seems unlikely given he is said to have spent the Winter working on his 1B skills.
Any one else think differently?February 17, 2018 at 8:58 am #44034
They’ve already said they are likely to open with a five-man bench and drop to four after the first week. Voit has a good chance to be the fifth, until being sent back to Memphis after a week. He would likely remain there until an injury to Carpenter or Martinez – or maybe Gyorko, who folks should remember can also play first base. That further limits Voit.
My guess is that the other fifth bench option to open the season would be whichever of Bader or O’Neill doesn’t make the team already as the fourth OF. Don’t count O’Neill out. At this time last spring, no one would have given Martinez a chance, either.
Back to Voit. His wild card, IMO, is if he takes to playing in the outfield. That would really, really help his ongoing chances. I just doubt they are going to experiment with that much in big-league camp and he probably will spend no time in minor league camp. If they think there is a chance for him in the OF, the best long-term move for his career might be a step backward to minor league camp just to get daily OF reps this spring. Memphis in-season games matter too, so once the season starts, work in the OF may be scarce, not to mention the fact that the Redbirds regular OF looks to be loaded.
As a first baseman only, anyone’s chances are going to be limited.February 17, 2018 at 9:22 am #44037
Of course Mo has been talking up Valera and his versatility.
Voit and the organization should have seen this coming for several years and already added the OF versatility.February 17, 2018 at 9:39 am #44044
At the risk of setting off bccran, I will say that I don’t think that anyone, including the Cards themselves, saw Voit as a prospect until fairly recently. Last spring at this time, he was not even in MLB camp. Still, I get your versatility point. It is one I have also been making for years.
When I saw the Valera comments, I wondered if he was talking up Valera’s value looking for a trade. Really hard for me to see where a 2B-OF fits. They already have many OFs and three 2Bmen – Wong, Gyorko and Garcia. If Schrock is as good as promised, he could be ready by this time next year. Valera is not a good enough SS to play there and potentially displace Garcia. By next year, that could be Munoz.February 17, 2018 at 1:57 pm #44070
Barring an injury, trade, or extreme performance in ST, there is no way Voit makes the team. As a matter of fact I don’t see many roster spots that are competetive.
There is a 95% chance the opening day roster (barring injury/trade) is:
Bench J. Martinez
SP C. Martinez
February 17, 2018 at 2:06 pm #44074
- This reply was modified 2 years ago by gscottar.
At 95 percent certainty, you would give me 20 to 1 odds, then? I will bet a buck against your $20 that you are wrong.
First of all, they said they are likely going with seven relievers the first week. I keep saying it and no one seems to believe me. Further, Bader is not a sure thing. Other than that, we agree.
The 25th spot is the whole purpose of this thread. My guess is that Brebbia is temporarily optioned out in favor of Voit or Bader/O’Neill, with Voit the early leader based on his 2017.February 17, 2018 at 2:15 pm #44075
Well yes if we only go with seven relievers for the first week that would give Voit a chance to open the season in STL but he would probably be back in Memphis in short order.February 17, 2018 at 5:20 pm #44081BlackHillsCardParticipantFree
Brian, I don’t know where you call home but I’m from Missouri (originally) and our motto is: Show Me! Therefore, Mo has to show me he’s only going with a 7 man bullpen when we all know how much he loves an 8-man bullpen and has the propensity to talk from both sides of his mouth about anything.
February 17, 2018 at 5:46 pm #44084
- This reply was modified 2 years ago by BlackHillsCard.
I am sorry, but I do not see where you are coming from here. I have zero reason to suspect the exec has any motivation whatsoever to lie about this matter. He said it at Winter Warm-Up in front of several dozen media members and with cameras and recorders rolling. I posted the audio here on the site for anyone to listen to.
Of course, conditions could change and they change their mind. As I keep saying, nothing is for sure until it happens, but he was pretty clear about their intent.
Maybe I would understand better if you can explain what it is about this point that causes you to be so cynical. It doesn’t have anything do to with Fowler’s contract, does it? 😉February 17, 2018 at 6:39 pm #44085BlackHillsCardParticipantFree
Mo has a propensity to talk from both sides of his mouth on everything. I’m sorry if you can’t see it. Even when he seems to be genuine his doublespeak is always evident.February 17, 2018 at 6:51 pm #44086
I have spoken with him directly many times and followed him for years. I find him to be generally very candid. Of course, the Cards spin views on matters that affect public perception of the roster and signings, for example. Every team does.
Do I believe anyone 100 percent of the time? Of course not. But over the years, I have a pretty well-refined BS meter.
Just the other day, I had a conversation with a younger writer who was quoting Mo, who said when they traded Leake they did it because they wanted to get younger. Of course, that was a white lie that most could easily see through. They did get younger when they traded him, but that was not the reason why. Leake was just 29. It had nothing to do with his age, but there was nothing to be gained by trashing a guy who was a very bad fit for the team on his way out the door.
Anyway, back to this particular topic. Do I think he would lie about the number of pitchers in the bullpen just because he supposedly doubletalks? No, I don’t. But I do know that if they change their mind, those looking for things to complain about will call it lying or flip-flopping or double-talking or whatever.
We will have to agree to disagree. I don’t paint every situation with the same broad brush.February 18, 2018 at 10:43 am #44102PadsFSParticipantFree
He said it’s in his blood to have an 8-man bullpen, except at the first of the year when we have several off-days built into the schedule. I think that’s fairly truthful.
I think Voit is the fifth along with Bader. Bren is would get optioned but I’d bet we have an injury that allows Brebbia to stay on. That’s why I’d like one more bullpen mate.February 18, 2018 at 11:46 am #44104
I think we have enough bullpen arms. If someone is injured, we still have Lucas, Sheriff, Mayers, Gant, Gomber, Flaherty, various NRI guys who could prove their worth, and others. There will also be guys being DFA’d/waived by other teams. Low on my list of priorities right now.February 18, 2018 at 11:51 am #44106SoonerinNCParticipantPaid - Annual
I don’t think Bader is a sure thing and maybe even Garcia. I have less concern about Garcia because there is really only Valera who the Cardinals seem to have little regard for. Maybe Munoz later in the year but he needs more innings at AAA and I am not sure that the Cardinals would want him confined to the bench.
And we could also pick up a free agent utility infielder or even in a trade.
Also probably at least one of the pitchers will come down with a sore arm or other injury. Hope not but odds are pretty good.February 18, 2018 at 12:43 pm #44110
Valera can’t replace Garcia because he is not a shortstop. For that matter, neither is Gyorko, which is why I think Garcia’s job is secure – for now. Garcia has had success as a pinch hitter and seems to have cemented a bench role after two years. However, he hits arbitration this fall so I predict he will be non-tendered next winter just as Descalso did.February 18, 2018 at 1:41 pm #44120
I think what Brian is saying is that Mo said we might TEMPORARILY use a 7 man pen due to the many off days in April. I am assuming that the huge majority of the season will see an 8 man pen. Good grief people, think!
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