Bullpen

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  • #159160
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    Why cant our guys seem to throw the ball over the plate?????

    Or am I just making a knee-jerk reaction and shouldnt be too concerned?

    We lost a game earlier in the week at Washington because Gallegos couldnt throw the ball over the plate. We came within a whisker of losing another one on Friday night because Hicks and Reyes couldnt throw the ball over the plate. And we almost blew another one today (Sunday) because Reyes was having a hard time throwing strikes.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #159181
    AvatarNigel T
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    Does anyone else remember how terrifying Izzy and Lee Smith made the end of games? It is hard on us, but think about Alex and Jordan. With Giovanni, we are enjoying the most talented bullpen in Cardinal history (imo).
    The tension they bring simply makes us feel more alive (even if it kills me).

    #159184
    Avatargscottar
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    I like our bullpen a lot but Hicks and Reyes have both walked more than they have struck out. That is not sustainable.

    #159185
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Were the Rosenthal days better? Motte? Ryan Franklin? Greg Holland? It is a tough job.

    #159187
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    No, the Rosenthal days weren’t better. They were just about what we’ve had the last few games. I even yelled outloud at the TV yesterday in the 9th inning to “BRING BACK ROSENTHAL!”

    I guess I just dont understand why pitchers cannot throw strikes?????

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #159189
    AvatarSnakeEyes_YT
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    Our bullpen has the potential to be unstoppable. With Gallegos, Reyes, and Hicks, the talent is all there.

    #159191
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Welcome, SnakeEyes!

    #159193
    Avatarforsch31
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    Even Bruce Sutter made a lot of games a nail biter. A closer is in a tough situation almost every time he pitches and his mistakes get magnified because it’s the end of the game.

    #159195
    Avatargscottar
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    A closer is in a tough situation almost every time he pitches and his mistakes get magnified because it’s the end of the game.

    Very true forsch which is why I have never bought the argument that anyone can be a closer. Wrong. Not only do you have to have good stuff you had better be very mentally tough. In my opinion, the final three outs are different than the others.

    #159199
    MrperkinsMrperkins
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    Dave Veres was tough to watch. All they had to do was not swing and every pitch ended up in the dirt.

    #159204
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    I think the best closer ever was when TLR move Dennis Eckersley into that role. He was a strike machine, rarely walking anyone and striking out guys at a high rate.

    Pitching is all about command. Velocity is nice and that is about all anyone talks about these days, but without command you won’t go far with velocity alone.

    Just look up the careeer of Steve Dalkowski on that one.

    #159206
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    Genesis Cabrera aka “Cabby” will have the most distinguished career of anyone presently in our pen. The deal that we thought we got royally fleeced on just may end up being the other way around. It’s always better to be the fleecor vs the fleecee.

    #159216
    Avatarblingboy
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    My favorinte Cardinals closer of all time is Rollie Fingers even though he was only a Cardinal for 3 days in December, 1980. Then G.M Whitey Herzog traded him for some chumps and he promptly won the A.L. Cy Young in 1981. Whitey fans never remember that.

    #159226
    Avatarforsch31
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    Of course, the players the Cardinals received in that Fingers trade were involved in trades for Ozzie Smith, Lonnie Smith and Jack Clark.

    #159227
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    Really like “Cabby”. His control has improved since he first came up.

    Yeah, it looked like we dealt Pham away and did not get equal value. But with Cabrera and now Williams coming along, we might have a couple of real good ones.

    And maybe someday the Arozarena/Liberatore deal will look good. We have fallen behind in that deal, and it is always risky counting on a pitcher as they are a bit more fragile than a position player. But a stud left handed in your rotation is gold.

    The potential is there, but time will tell if that becomes true value, or the guy is the next Drew Pomeranz.

    #159350
    AvatarHammerfist
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    John Gant went 11-1 in 2019?? I did not remember that. Wow.

    #159355
    Avatargscottar
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    John Gant went 11-1 in 2019?? I did not remember that. Wow.

    Yes but he got so worn down he was very ineffective coming down the stretch and was left off of the playoff roster.

    #159391
    MrperkinsMrperkins
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    Drew Pomeranz is not that bad. 2014-2017 were good to great, including an all star nod and deserving another. Now if he becomes STU Pomeranz, Drew’s bother and former Cardinal farmhand, that would be disappointing

    #159393
    AvatarHammerfist
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    No i remember him wearing down but I didn’t recall him racking up 11 wins. I was shocked when I saw that number.

    #159404
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Drew Pomeranz has had some good moments, but he is the classic journeyman. If we gave up Arozarena for a guy that ends up with Pomeranz’ numbers, we got took.

    #159405
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    My favorite Cardinals closer of all time is Rollie Fingers even though he was only a Cardinal for 3 days in December,

    There were those 3 days where we had both Fingers and Sutter. What a late game bullpen that would have been!

    But you can’t criticize Whitey much for all that shuffling as we won it all soon after, 1982. The two deals I did not like were Hernandez for Neil Allen and Rick Ownbey, and Van Slyke/LaValiere/Dunne for Tony Pena. Did not like either deal when they were made, and they turned out just as bad. We did win the year we made the deal with the Pirates, but they greatly benefitted from those guys and won some division titles when they added Bonds, Bonilla and that bunch to the mix.

    #159522
    AvatarCardsFanInChiTown
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    Gallegos keeps my blood pressure the lowest out of all of them, for that reason alone, I wish they would give him the job. I’m not saying some of the others don’t have equal or even better stuff.

    #159529
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    CFITC…. I agree with that blood pressure point. For now our best option is…. Gallegos then Reyes.

    #159530
    Avatargscottar
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    Mike, I agree with you on those two bad trades.

    We have discussed the reasons Hernandez was traded but the return was light. Neil Allen was a disaster.

    Tony Pena was a pretty good player but I think the Cardinals misevaluated Van Slyke. We kept platooning him in RF with Tito Landrum. The Pirates, on the other hand, made him their everyday CF and he was a great player for them.

    CardsfaninChitown, I agree with you about Gallegos. He had that one bad game in Washington but otherwise he is the glue that holds the bullpen together in my opinion.

    #159539
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    So what you are saying is that the Cardinals and Whitey specifically could not properly evaluate OF talent in the 1980s? 😉

    Seriously, for every Van Slyke, there is a McGee, or earlier, a Brock, or even an Edmonds. Fickle fans want their team to never make mistakes and win every deal, but that isn’t realistic.

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