Bader

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  • #187694
    bccran
    Participant

    What was the deal with Marmol pulling Bader from the game yesterday? And after the game saying it was an effort issue and will be handled in the locker room. Is there a rub there?

    #187698
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    He didn’t run out a pop-up that was caught easily.

    But if it had been dropped, he could have been on second instead of first.

    I would give a player a warning rather than publicly call him out like that.

    #187700
    bccran
    Participant

    Maybe he’d been warned before.

    #187704
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #187714
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The problem is 90 percent of the lineup doesn’t run out those plays. Maybe marmol has said something to bader before, well he should be talking to everyone else. Saying that bader is our hustle guy and only holding him to that standard is just clownish. If you want to try to set examples so you get the message to other guys, how about going after the veterans like a pujols, Molina, or goldy who made a base running error the other day. Heck oneil has got himself into outs twice at least this year he shouldn’t of. Plus marmol has cost us games with his management of the bullpen. He needs to discipline himself.

    #187718
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Message delivered and accepted. End of case.

    #187723
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    It’s not end of case. I listened to marmols, comes off more clownish. Bader can’t really make his case or say he’s being scapegoated when others are doing similar things cause then he comes off bad. According to marmol, bader is hustle guy so he has to always do it but guys who always loaf, well that’s ok. How about O’Neils obvious blunder going to third. He’s in the lineup today, didnt pay any price.

    #187724
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    If you are going to make an example out of somebody not running something out, you do it to Yadi.

    #187743
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    Yep, this is stupid. The examples are numerous with several players, but I just saw a replay of Albert’s ground rule double that he just hit. He stood in the box admiring it for at least a little bit, then the camera broke away. Not hustling on a ball that is unlikely to be caught is way worse than not hustling on a play that is almost certainly going to be caught.

    Marmol was stupid for the way he communicated this publicly. Could’ve pulled Bader aside privately and told him he’s the one guy that can set a hustle standard to create the kind of culture he wants, and confide he’s in a delicate situation so as to not offend the high paid veterans. If he has already told Bader that, then don’t be a hypocrite and blast one of the least offenders first. Marmol has planted a seed that in worst case will grow something ugly. Best case is nothing bad grows. Nobody likes favoritism and hypocrisy, especially when it’s so blatantly obvious. Glad Bader took the high ground to help Oli out.

    #187756
    Bob Reed
    Participant

    Free

    On a barely related note, I recall Bernie Williams in one Yankee playoff game, failing to run on a lazy popup/fly ball between the infield/outfield. The ball dropped and Bernie was standing at first base, when he easily should have been at second.

    Then later in the same playoff game the EXACT same thing happened again! Same hitter, same dropped fly in no man’s land, same result. No hustle, and standing on first instead of second. Far as I know, Bernie Williams was never disciplined publicly or privately by Joe Torre. (Well, I know for a 99% fact in didn’t happen publicly.)

    This feels like an insecure young Marmol was simply making an example of Bader, to show everyone who’s boss. No big deal, in all likelihood. Bader fessed up, punishment over.

    Trouble is, in a way this is the same thing Marmol is doing with Jake Woodford, obviously. No halfway competent manager at any level, amateur or professional, is actually stupid enough to stop using an effective pitcher because a single specific pitch of his isn’t quite as good as the manager would prefer. (In Woodford’s case, the allegedly defective slider.) You use the effective pitchers, and do not use the ineffective ones. That’s how you win games, and Ollie of course knows that much.

    So Woodford is being punished for something — endlessly punished, apparently. And that would be bad enough…but the team is being punished as well, every time an inferior pitcher is given meaningful innings (starting or bullpen) that could and should have gone to Jake Woodford, whose MLB earned run average is 2.83 since Sept. 1 of last year (FIP ~3.20). That covers 47.2 innings.

    Okay, we get it, Ollie. You’re the boss. Now please put your hitters and pitchers into positions where they are likely to succeed. Thanks.

    #187766
    858booyah
    Participant

    Free

    Oh there’s a whole bunch of stupid in this here.

    If you are going to make an example out of somebody not running something out, you do it to Yadi.

    So you want to set an example for your 40 year old catcher who is a likely HOF’er, who never ran well to begin with who plays the most physically demanding positon on the diamond.

    Honestly if there’s one person who needs to ger his ass rode it’s that pretty boy Bader! It also can be done to show some of the other underperforming Outfielders and younger players that slacking off will not be tolerated. Bader isn’t god like some think he is in our fanbase. He hits at times like he’s the OF version of Paul DeJong.

    #187769
    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    Free

    Bader is trying to be pretty out there. Trying to be cutesy, trying to impress the girls. INSTEAD OF TRYING TO BE A HARD-NOSED ST. LOUIS CARDINAL BASEBALL PLAYER!!!

    It’s been this way since he came up a few years ago. If Herzog was the manager I bet he would have already had an altercation with Bader the way he did with Templeton years ago.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #187773
    sjeff70
    Participant

    Free

    On the 101.1 show last week, Alexa Datt and Smalls were hosting the show and were talking about Bader’s and Donovan’s hair on the radio.

    #187774
    UConn Card
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Pity they weren’t around back in the ’70’s to discuss Simba’s hair.

    /s

    #187775
    PugsleyAddams
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Two that I remember most were Bobby Cox vs Andruw Jones and Charlie Manuel vs Jimmy Rollins.

    #187815
    so_cal_cards_fan
    Participant

    Free

    While his removal from Saturday’s game was public, it was not the first time this month Marmol confronted Bader about what he saw on the field.

    P-D

    #187829
    bccran
    Participant

    Marmol may be getting tired of Bader’s showboating.
    Every time the kid gets a hit, he has to do dramatics with the dugout. Act like a pro.

    #187832
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I like Bader’s enthusiasm and his all out style of play. He might be the best center fielder in the game. I hope the front office extends him. I do take issue with Marmol pulling him out of a game for not running out a batted ball. It just seams kind of bush league to pull a major league player out like that. Bader must have looked at the situation and decided he wasn’t going to start a feud with Marmol over this. Kudos to Bader for acting like an adult who looks at both sides of the situation, and then does what’s best for all.

    #187835
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Well since marmol says bader is the energy guy he must like the stuff he does with the dugout. He’s not the only one that does that either. I guess he should just act like a bag of rocks. No thanks, I like a little energy. Far as making an example of yadi. Slow guys are the ones that need to hustle the most. Also since yadi is one of the veterans, those are the ones you use as examples, not bader who only recently became a full time starter. That’s why belecheck would always get on Brady. If the players knew Brady wasn’t safe, they definitely knew they weren’t. Oh Whitey would have loved bader. Whitey loved defense and bader and Templeton are nothing alike. Far as his hair, just stick to baseball.

    #187866
    bccran
    Participant

    Why isn’t he in the lineup tonight?
    Is there an under the radar story going on?

    #187919
    sjeff70
    Participant

    Free

    Reminds me of the infamous Reggie Jackson, Billy Martin incident where Jackson didn’t run out a fly ball in right & pulled him from the game. Billy pulled him into the dugout and they ended up trying to exchange blows.

    Obviously there was something going on prior to pulling Bader we aren’t privy to.

    #187927
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Ya gotta at least think of the possibility of Bader and or Woodford being dealt at the deadline. That’s how things work upstairs.

    Marmol sure lets people know how he feels about certain players. He really should keep it in the dugout.

    #187928
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I could see a trade involving one of those two, NyQuisT. I’ll be curious what sort of upgrade Mo may be seeking at the deadline. Traditionally he doesn’t make much of a splash, though. What would Woodford and Burleson fetch?

    #187984
    bccran
    Participant

    My guess is that Oli has been pointing to Bader as an example of how all players should hustle. When Bader didn’t hustle that time, it embarrassed Oli. That’s why he had to do something more dramatic so Bader would understand the point.

    #188059
    bccran
    Participant

    That fly in the 9th wasn’t Bader’s fault. They had the infield playing in to protect against the bloop hit. He made a valiant effort.

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