Analyzing The Starters (And Those Who Could Start)

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  • #149254
    Avatarbccran
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    An interesting discussion might be to analyze the starters and potential starters in our system. Some posters think we have a plethora of talent. Others say we aren’t that deep. It’s a viable topic because there’s a possibility that Mo may want to add to the offense with a trade ala the Ozuna,
    Goldschmidt, and O’Neill trades. Trading arms for bats.

    So who do we have that are starters now, and who came through the system as starters that could be converted back? Who has the variety of pitches that a starter needs, and who should stay in the bullpen? Who could be viable trade chips?

    Starters (or have started) –

    Flaherty
    Kim
    Mikolas
    Waino
    Hudson (on IL)
    Martinez (wants to start)
    Reyes (wants to start)
    Gomber (starter in the minors)
    Ponce (starter in the minors)
    Gant (starter in the minors)
    Cabrera (starter in the minors)
    Helsley (starter in the minors)
    Oviedo
    Woodford
    Rondon

    Starters coming through the system –

    Liberatore
    Thompson
    Locey
    Pallante
    Ralston
    Roberts
    Seijas
    Gingery
    Parsons
    Escobar
    FaGalde
    Jimenez
    Kruczynski

    I’ll start it off by saying IMHO all the guys on the 40 man who are in the bullpen now, who have started coming through the minors, could be stretched out and be at least back of the rotation starters. Pretty much all the ones in the first group above.

    #149328
    Avatarbccran
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    Which of the following couldn’t be converted back to at least a back of the rotation starter? And why? All of them were starters coming through the minors.

    Reyes – 2020
    Starts – 1
    ERA – 3.20
    WHIP – 1.42
    IP – 19.2
    H – 14
    K – 27

    Gomber – 2020
    Starts – 4
    ERA – 1.86
    WHIP – 1.17
    IP – 29
    H – 19
    K – 27

    Ponce – 2020
    Starts – 8
    ERA – 4.96
    WHIP – 1.32
    IP – 32.2
    H – 23
    K – 45

    Cabrera – 2020
    Starts – 0
    ERA – 2.42
    WHIP – 1.16
    IP – 22.1
    H – 10
    K – 32

    Helsley – 2020
    Starts – 0
    ERA – 5.25
    WHIP – 1.33
    IP – 12
    H – 8
    K – 10

    Fernandez – 2020
    Starts – 0
    ERA – 18.0
    WHIP – 2.67
    IP – 3
    H – 6
    K – 2

    #149473
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    This thread and the other just sort of got lost in the ether here. I’ll respond… Fernandez, Helsley, Cabrera and Ponce are not likely to be starters. Ponce maybe has the most chance but his runway is getting limited. I’d rather see him just stick to the pen and maybe displace Gant if he gets too pricey next year. He can be good in short stints.

    Reyes will get a shot at starting in 2021, and I hope he takes advantage and can stay healthy. He could make a nice 1-2 punch with Flaherty. The stuff is obviously still there.

    Gomber can start and probably should if there’s an open spot. He could also be trade bait as I don’t think he’s more than a #5 long term.

    As far as the list in your first post, there will be some attrition of starters in the system, some may make it and some may step forward. My concern is that for 2022 we have this as a rotation:

    Flaherty
    Mikolas at 33 two years removed from a missing season
    Hudson coming back from TJ
    ??
    ??

    Unlike the playing field, there is a level of certainty that you absolutely must have in the rotation. Losing the entire 2018 draft by not drafting any pitchers of note will hurt (also why they traded for Liberatore). There are guys who could fill that void but with one or two of the wrong guys traded away we could be looking at having to spend our dry powder on pitching rather than the offense after next year. That’s a big concern.

    #149478
    Avatarbccran
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    Why wouldn’t you extend Kim?

    #149479
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Kim could possibly be extended, but he’s not under contract so I didn’t count him. We also have no idea how his 2021 will go. He looked good this year but so did Seung Hwan Oh before he came back to earth in year 2.

    #149484
    Avatarbccran
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    I’d extend Kim. I don’t know what happened with Oh his second year with the Cardinals, but he came back and pitched well for the Jays and Rockies the following year.

    #149487
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I think it’s too early to go the extension route. It may have burned us with Mikolas. Maybe it’d be something to work on at the All Star break next year. Besides, if KK likes it in St Louis he’d probably be amenable to resigning after next year. No reason to rush it.

    #149490
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    Pass.

    #149491
    Avatarbccran
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    Pass on extending Kim if he has a good 2021? Why? Blockage?

    #149507
    Avatargscottar
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    I would not consider extending Kim until we see what kind of 2021 he has. Handing out internal extensions is what got the Cardinals in this mess anyway!

    The only pitcher we have that I would consider extending is Flaherty and he seems to have zero interest in that so it is a moot point.

    #149511
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    The key reasons for the best early extensions are to head off large potential salary increases in the future and keep players past their free agent eligibility into the prime of their careers. Kim does not fit this model, nor did Mikolas, for that matter. I am stopping short of calling the latter deal a bad one yet, but it doesn’t look great so far. No reason whatsoever to go there with Kim right now and probably very little downside in waiting. It can be revisited next winter.

    #149515
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    The only pitcher we have that I would consider extending is Flaherty and he seems to have zero interest in that so it is a moot point.

    Yep. Although I think Flaherty had a better 2020 than the angry mob thinks. If he’s looking like his usual self in 2021, I might consider using some of the windfall to try to lock him up. We know the Cards won’t spend all their savings next year anyway so I’d rather keep a healthy and effective Flaherty than spend his money on a Mike Leake type after 2023.

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