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The two corner Cardinal IF’ers have in 2 seasons gone from what I thought were without question the best IF corner duo in the game, to what I would term insignificant. Neither has had an impact this season beyond what I’d call negligible. The defense is still there, but Ozzie and Maz aren’t going to man up at the corners of what I imagine to be the ideal IF. At any rate, they’re being paid $60M between the two of them. If that isn’t enough to motivate them to step it up, maybe the lack of any WS appearances or championships between the two elite corner IF’ers is. I’m growing weary of what I perceive to be a lack of urgency.
I am not really dismayed in the sense that it makes sense, to me at least.
Goldy had a big year in 2022, his age 35 season. He dropped off quite a bit last year in his age 36 season and he looks like he is about done here in his age 37 season. OK, so what is not to be expected about that? Nothing
It was known, or rumored, that Arenado had wanted out of Colorado. Why? They were not competitive and he wanted to win. So now he is playing like he doesn’t want to be here. It must be deja vu all over again for him.
Father time is not going to make nature run in reverse, and Father Bill is not going to buy virtually an entire roster of post season calibre players. That means neither Goldy nor Arenado are going to rebound much or at all.
Yeah I get it, Bling. The hands of time always turn clockwise, but I’m not sure I’ve seen a player go from an MVP season to the other end of the spectrum that quickly. In the case of Arenado, I sometimes get the same impression that you mentioned and he’s always seemed a bit temperamental to me. In any case, they’re both professionals who are being paid a lot of money. At this stage of their careers I’d like to think that they’d both want to display some pride in their craft and a determination to play some winning baseball.
Yeah, they are professionals, but as TLR would say they are men not machines. I also think it is safe to say neither is real into mentoring young players. Otherwise we wouldn’t be saddled with Carp and maybe Crawford. No, NA wanted out of Colorado and the situation here is the same. He doesn’t have enough career left to wait for this to turn around.
It’s my understanding that Goldschmidt is a 5/10 player and can veto any trade. Correct?
And it’s also my understanding that Arenado is not. Correct?
And what are the odds if we trade both of them at the deadline that they go on a tear for their new teams and everybody will wonder why St. Louis traded them?
1TD, one potential issue with how you’re measuring their decline is you seem to be anchoring on 2022 as the fixed point of comparison. But if you pull back the lens a little and look at the broader sweep of their careers, their 2022 seasons look (and appeared at the time) like pretty major anomalies that fortuitously happened in the same year. Basically, against long odds, Arenado had the best year of his career at age 31, and Goldschmidt had the second best of his career at age 34. And they both happened at the same time.
But if you look at how they were trending in the years immediately before and after 2022, this isn’t that crazy of a fall-off for players who are in their mid-30s (though Goldschmidt’s decline has been more severe than Arenado’s). Said differently, the bigger anomaly may be 2022, not today.
Goldschmidt (Age/ OPS+/ wRC+/ fWAR/ bWAR)
2014: 26; 158; 154; 4.3; 4.7
2015: 27; 168; 163; 7.2; 8.3
2016: 28; 133; 133; 4.4; 5.0
2017: 29; 142; 142; 5.4; 4.9
2018: 30; 142; 145; 4.6; 5.5
2019: 31; 115; 117; 3.0; 2.6
2020: 32; 145; 147; 2.1; 2.1
2021: 33; 141; 136; 4.8; 6.0
2022: 34; 177; 176; 6.9; 7.7
2023: 35; 120; 122; 3.4; 3.4
2024: 36; 87; 90; 0.1; 0.4Arenado (Age/ OPS+/ wRC+/ fWAR/ bWAR)
2014: 23; 115; 113; 2.6; 3.6
2015: 24; 124; 121; 4.5; 6.3
2016: 25; 129; 126; 6.0; 5.9
2017: 26; 130; 130; 5.7; 6.7
2018: 27; 133; 133; 5.9; 6.4
2019: 28; 131; 130; 6.1; 7.3
2020: 29; 86; 76; 0.6; 1.5
2021: 30; 119; 112; 4.3; 4.0
2022: 31; 151; 150; 7.2; 7.7
2023: 32; 108; 107; 2.7; 2.4
2024: 33; 99; 101; 1.0; 0.4I wouldn’t expect either to serve as any sort of mentor to younger players other than possibly setting an example by demonstrating excessive effort and determination to win. I never considered Chris Carpenter any sort of mentor, but he certainly provided an exemplary example of a competitor who was entirely determined to win every time he stepped on to a baseball diamond. And we all know Albert Pujols provided an example simply by watching him. I sometimes suspect that the key element that’s been missing the last couple of seasons is simply competitive determination which has nothing at all to do with what’s sometimes termed as, “veteran leadership.”
I’m not entirely clear on that either, Rats, but I strongly suspect that both of them have a substantial degree of control regarding where they will or won’t play.
Yeah, that’s a clear illustration RBK, but you’d hope that both of them wouldn’t entirely tank in perfect unison…Haha!
Unfortunately, if you hide the 2022 row, Arenado appears to be on a pretty consistent trendline. Goldschmidt’s fall-off is more severe, but he is 3 years older, and aging curves in baseball are just that: curves–on average, player decline isn’t linear.
Surprisingly, Arenado didn’t exercise his opt-out after that incredible 2022 season, and he *and* the Cardinals are probably going to end up worse off for it.
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