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I would like to see Dobbins as the 5th starter, with Liberatore a multi-inning reliever in the bullpen. Maybe a piggyback starter with Dobbins to keep him stretched out.
The only way I see the Cardinals acquiring a pitcher this year is if the new CBA forces them to spend money.
Well so far the pitchers the cardinals have used are at best number 2s, i havent seen a number one. Real number ones are rare. I wouldnt mind a trade for a number 1 or paying the money for skubal type. Esp with skubal you could limit his innings if the season falls apart. You can wait and hope someone of that calibre is still available in a year or so but you never know. Personally id like to get back to the way the cardinals used to be. We had a horse as the anchor of our staff. Waino, carpenter before him, there was one before him but for some reason my mind is blank. I think a team needs that. We dont have that right now in my opinion anyway.
Well so far the pitchers the cardinals have used are at best number 2s, i havent seen a number one.
It would have been extraordinary for a potential #1 to emerge in year 1 of the rebuild.
For example, the presumed Cy Young Award winner in 2026, Jacob Misiorowski, was ranked 60th nationally in 2024 (AA) and 44th in 2025 (AAA) by BA.
In other words, picking future aces is far from precise at any point in time.
Maybe thats true but i dont know what the mizzs flaws that kept him that low. Maybe he couldnt throw strikes, i dont know, dont follow brewers. But what i consider number 1 stuff, you can usually see hints of it pretty early. What they say, you either got it or you dont. We will see.
No maybe. It is true.
Baseball history is filled with can’t miss pitching prospects who missed and guys who were underestimated that went on to excel.
Watching the rotation come together in ST will be great fun. The last piece or two will likely be unknown until they are ready to break camp and head north.
I could see Roby or Franklin to be strong candidates for starter and S Santana a strong bullpen possibility. Doyle a possible callup in mid season. Also Cjinta (sp)
Don’t see Ragsdale a legit candidate for center field. Probably Peete and Condon best long term options now.
See trade deal with Dbacks better than the Milwaukee deal.Three legitimate pitche possibility from Dbaskk trade for Nootbar.
Clarke best possibility for breakout season.
I didnt say guys couldnt excel, thats a different thing. I was talking about a number one starter. If you think there is an actual number one there, not just someone doing the role, thats fine. I dont see it. Some can see things while others cant, some people are wrong, while others are right. Time will tell the answer.
Sooner, I think there’s a zero percent chance that Franklin is in the Cardinals rotation at the onset of ‘27. Even if 5 starters were injured, he isn’t going to make it. He hasn’t pitched an inning at AAA, he’s only had 1 season as a starting pitcher, and he’s not Rule 5 eligible by the end of ‘27 so no reason to push him at all. Doyle is in the same boat except he has been a starter for much longer.
Assuming they aren’t traded or hurt, Pallante, McGreevey, Leahy, and Mathews all have positions locked down. They’d have to be terrible in Spring Training not to earn one. That leaves one open slot to start the year. There is lots of competition for that one. Liberatore, Hjerpe, Cijntje, and Fitts would be the front runners. Graceffo and Roby are the dark horses. Four of these guys have the same problem though. Hjerpe, Fitts, Graceffo, and Roby would all be on an extreme innings limit (maybe a little less extreme for Graceffo). That all leads me to a few possible conclusions:
Option 1: They choose whomever looks best in the Spring with Liberatore or Fitts likely getting a leg up based on MLB experience. This is the basic straightforward approach.
Option 2: Piggybacks will be the answer. I could see 2 of the above getting the last spot and one more getting a regular piggyback start with McGreevey or whoever happened to struggle that week.
Option 3: There will be trades. The Cardinals will look at their logjam of #3/4/5 pitchers and decide to trade them off in the hopes to upgrade internally to a #3 or eventually a #1 or #2 pitcher. They clearly need a starting third baseman so this is a way to get there. Trading either Pallante or McGreevey might be a good way to get there (I’d include Fitts here too, but he needs to reclaim some value first before they trade him).
but i dont know what the mizzs flaws that kept him that low. Maybe he couldnt throw strikes, i dont know, dont follow brewers.
His flaw was that he was at a junior college, not a 4-year college.
If you read the scouting reports on him at the time, they were all excellent in terms of his stuff.
I think a better example of not being able to pick future aces is Tarik Skubal, who was a 9th round selection.
Hjerpe, Fitts, Graceffo, and Roby would all be on an extreme innings limit
If you mean for the season, I do not disagree, but point out that we had starters wearing out and in some cases cutting back by late this past season, so no different. If you mean “extreme” game innings limit, I do disagree. With the possible exception of Fitts, they could all work up over the course of ST the same as anyone else. Hjerpe was throwing 70+ and Roby went 40 and then 47 his first two games back. Graceffo can work up as a starter. Its not like they are trying to break into a stable of horses.
Yes Bling. I mean for the season. Hjerpe, Fitts, and Roby may all be limited to somewhere between 100 and 130 innings. Roby could even be lower than that. I would imagine Graceffo could go 120-150 innings.
Assuming they play in 2027 my guess on Rotation would be this:
To start the season….McGreevy/Pallante/Leahy/Mathews then Liberatore and Fitts battle for the last spot (if all Healthy)
Memphis Rotation….Doyle/Cijntje/Roby/Henderson/Molina/Mautz (If all Healthy)
Franklin I would assume he starts at AA unless he is lights out in the Spring…
I am assuming Dobbins is out a substantial or all 2027.
I would see Liberatore and Fitts as possible bullpen moves if any of the Memphis starters force there way to a call up b/c of performance.
Leahy will be interesting, as I think he has some real upside, but he threw more innings than he ever has last season, so will be interesting to see how he handles that.
Liberatore is capable of looking good, so if they work him as a starter this spring he could make the rotation. But there is little reason to think his results would pan out any different from last year. I hope they go a different direction.
Nice info lacardfan. When i say number one, i dont really mean how good their stuff is. Its not really about that. Its about their demeanor, attitude. Albeit i didnt know much about carpenter when he came over from toronto but he had it when he came over. Something tells me he was always like that. Waino developed it pretty early, maybe because he was the closer at first. There were a couple others before them that were that guy. They werent always the guys with the best stuff but they were the guysi wanted in a must win game. It takes more than just being able to spin a baseball to be that guy in my eyes.
So far Liberatore has underachieved. He should have to battle for a rotation spot. Fitts may not be ready. Roby is a dark horse for next year. Leahy is 29, but did have a fine year. Pallante may be paid more than his value. Liberatore may also get non tendered.
I think Liberatore has had enough chances to earn a place in the rotation. Sending him to the bullpen sounds kind of callous, but maybe that’s what needs to be done. There have been several starts where Liberatore pitched well through 4 innings, then collapsed after that.
Bernie Miklas has suggested that we trade McGreevy while his value is highest. My first reaction to that was ‘No way!’ But now I’m not so sure. McGreevy gets his outs by constantly throwing a different ball up to the plate. Since batters guess where the pitch is going to land in the strike zone before they swing, they seldom can guess right because of all the different looks they get from McGreevy. We have such an abundance of pitching that trading McGreevy now might make sense.
I read that “trade McGreevy” theory and I can only say that McGreevy is just the type of pitcher we would be looking for. Also he came up through our system…. wasn’t rushed, and pitched well at each level until he earned a spot in MLB. Isn’t that the present philosophy for filling the STL roster? If you believe that trading a player because his value is up probably doesn’t sit well in the minds of the MiLB prospects. Unless they feel that getting out of this organization is a reward. ha ha.
They werent always the guys with the best stuff but they were the guysi wanted in a must win game. It takes more than just being able to spin a baseball to be that guy in my eyes.
Those guys didn’t ever look scared even when they were getting hit. They looked mad. Lib looks scared.
Leahy strikes me as a guy who never looks scared.
I get that McGreevy is the type of pitcher we want, but the point is, so does everyone else, so he has real value. Depending on how things go, we could be in a position to move a starter sometime later next year. A young stud CF would work. I think trading an established rotation piece this winter or spring would be reckless.
Some of the starters could be non tender candidates. Liberatore might be too expensive if he is a reliever. Pallante may be cut too, but not likely since a 2026 year repeat would be cheaper than signing a free agent. Like I said earlier I would sign minor league free agents and maybe you find one starter. Plus, I think we’ll have one of our prospects will be ready by the summer of ‘27. I just hope there isn’t a lockout.
We’re not going to get anybody’s uber prospect for McGreevy. That just doesn’t happen.
One of the benefits of having McGreevy around other than the wins he gets for the ball club is that he is such a known commodity. It’s not prospect development day ever. time he pitches. He shows up, throws strikes, and gets outs. Easy peasy for a manager. The downside might be that he doesn’t really have a strikeout pitch. No high octane FB or unhittable changeup. He does allow 1 HR/9. He’s about as likable as any player can be. The onlyT reasons to move him would be if we have a TOR guy that has earned a chance, or for cost savings if he gets too expensive. Even then, it would be hard to see him go.
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