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For a more compete picture, offense at Double-A:
Herrera .747 OPS
Pages .793 (.754 first year)
Crooks .895Which one is not like the others?
Just note that Andrew Knizner was roughly equivalent to Crooks (.833) at AA at the same age. Crooks has been a little better, but I’ll temper my hopes. Right now I still prefer Pages because of the intangibles. I do like Crooks and Bernal though too.
I looked up Yadier’s OPS in AA. It was .660. I’d quit worrying about catcher prospect OPS if I were you. The problem is we’re worrying about the wrong things, and so are the Cardinals, IMO. And no, I don’t think they magically smartened up since Herrera.
Bling, in their defense, the Cardinals chose to keep an unproven Pages over Knizner coming off his best season. And then after just a few weeks of being promoted to the big leagues and despite Herrera hitting well at the MLB level, the Cardinals chose to keep Pages up over Herrera when Herrera returned from the IL. It’s clear they do value defense at that position.
Also note that we all knew Herrera wouldn’t be that good at throwing out runners. Well, maybe we being the Cardinals and those who follow minors closely. Granted, he’s been even worse than expected. But 1/3 of that is due to us having a few pitchers that are atrocious at holding runners or at getting the ball quickly to the plate (Pallante and Kittredge immediately come to mind).
So, we should not pay attention to AA defense or offense because the results don’t matter? And scouting reports and grades should be diminished, as well? I don’t understand. How does one compare prospects, then? Please detail what are the “right things to worry about” and how are they assessed.
P.S. One contrary data example does not invalidate every other one.
jnevel said:
Bling, in their defense, the Cardinals chose to keep an unproven Pages over Knizner coming off his best season.
It was Herrera who opened the season on the roster replacing Knizner, not Pages.
Brian, I’m well aware that Herrera replaced Knizner on the team. But Pages replaced him on the 40-man roster. So to me, they chose to put Pages on the roster and let Knizner go.
Oh, I see what you meant now. I thought of “roster” as meaning active, not 40-man. I hadn’t thought about that as a roster spot trade, but it makes sense they wanted to protect Pages especially when they let Knizner go. They also saved at least $1 million in the process. Thanks for clarifying.
P.S. That looks even better now that the Rangers sent Knizner down to the minors because he struggled so badly at the plate. He was replaced by Carson Kelly.
The #STLCards system went 3-1 on Sunday. The Cardinal Nation’s Player of the Day, Memphis CF Mike Antico, went 4-for-6 with a HR, 2 doubles, 4 RBI and a run scored. Other standouts: Luken Baker, Jordan Walker, Chris Rotondo, Ixan Henderson, Darlin Moquete & Chase Adkison.… pic.twitter.com/9hEGSMQYip
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) August 5, 2024
Bling, I remain very interested in your view of how to assess minor leaguers since stats and scouting reports apparently cannot be trusted. You assert that the Cardinals and some of us here are focused on the “wrong things”. Given that, you surely must know what the “right things” are. Please share this information. Thank you.
Also note that we all knew Herrera wouldn’t be that good at throwing out runners.
Jnevel, As I mentioned a couple of weeks ago I did not know he wouldn’t be good at throwing out runners. I certainly don’t claim to be a prospect guru or as informed as some on here but I try to read what I can.
My recollection is that he was a highly rated prospect in the system and was mentioned as the heir apparent to Molina. I don’t recall that prognostication coming with the caveat that he had a glaring defensive defiency but it is certainly possible that I missed it. If so, then why was he ranked so high in the system?
I went back and looked at the 2023 prospect voting thread. The TCN community voted Herrera sixth. No comments were made about his defense.
On the site, we ranked Herrera seventh coming into 2023. This is an excerpt of what Blake wrote:
(Blake included several videos of strong throws by Herrera.)
“He also flashes his arm there, which probably isn’t more than average but it can be impressive at times. His caught stealing rate of 18% in Memphis is less impressive, though. I do think his arm is stronger than that. Ultimately, I expect Herrera to be a bat-first catcher but I do think there’s enough room for growth with his defense that he could be a pretty balanced everyday catcher at his peak. There’s still enough room for Herrera to grow that I wouldn’t be unhappy if he was kept in Memphis all year, nor would I think that represented a failure on his part…”
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