2021 Cardinals MLB Game 67 thread – Tuesday, June 15 vs. Marlins

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  • #163868
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    7:15 p.m.
    LHP Kwang-Hyun Kim (1-4, 4.05) vs. LHP Trevor Rogers (7-3, 2.02)
    BSM // KMOX // WIJR

    #164020
    gscottar
    Participant

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    We don’t play a team with a winning record until July 5. We need to get fat while we can.

    #164024
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    A win last night, but beyond our 39 year old ace the starting pitching fades fast. Should be better later as some guy get healthy, if they indeed do get healthy.

    Sosa certainly is earning more reps. I can’t see him out of the lineup and DeJong in once Bader gets back, unless Paul suddenly starts hitting and Edmundo slumps.

    The lineup is screaming for an Arenado-O’Neill-Goldschmidt 3-4-5 but Shildt does not seem to want to change anything. A case can be made that Goldy should hit better going forward, and Nolie as well. But Nolie is in his prime, and is more likely to get on a hot streak. Goldy is in a down trend, and with O’Neill providing almost a prototypical #4 bat your best lineup is as I listed above.

    But I agree with Pugs’ post on the Monday game thread. There is nothing I see that gives me confidence in us contending this year. It’s more of a season to see who can play, and lay the groundwork for the future.

    #164043
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    #164045
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    But I agree with Pugs’ post on the Monday game thread. There is nothing I see that gives me confidence in us contending this year. It’s more of a season to see who can play, and lay the groundwork for the future.

    I tend to agree. We might get back in the race because of our upcoming soft schedule but I really don’t think this team is worth a heavy investment at the trade deadline. We have too many bad contracts that need to be gone. I wouldn’t mind a couple of modest upgrades at the deadline that doesn’t cost a top prospect but I wouldn’t be trading away too many prospects since obviously our minor league depth is not as strong as we thought it was. I certainly wouldn’t trade away anyone on our top 10 list.

    The heavy lifting can be done in the offseason when we are finally rid of a lot of baggage.

    #164049
    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    Free

    So, do we assume we will be rid of the big contracts for Carpenter and Carlos Martinez? And are we still paying for Fowler?

    #164051
    LACardFan
    Participant

    Free

    Yes, we will be done with Carpenter.

    We will most likely be done with Carlos Martinez, but they probably won’t make that decision until the end of the year. He does have a lower WHIP than Gant, Kim and Oviedo, though.

    Yes, we are paying Fowler.

    #164052
    1982 willie
    Participant

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    Well I was reading an article but I can’t remember where from, but it basically said we still owe carpenter after this year, something like 2 to 3 million. It was making the same case which I agree with that we can’t throw away next year and beyond on a team that’s not ready for prime time this year. Now the one thing to he article proposed that I didn’t like was resigning carpenter to a very low salary deal like 2 million. The only way it makes sense I’d if there is a dh and I’m not really sure about that. I could see the Cardinals doing it though.

    #164053
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Same lineup vs another lefty tonight. This time Sosa 7th, DeJong 8th. (flipped).

    #164054
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Carp has a 2mil buyout on his club option for 2022 Willie, and he WILL NOT meet the PA qualifier to allow that option to vest.

    #164056
    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    Free

    What does it mean to Vest?

    #164057
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Thanks for that info jj.

    #164058
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Oh vest means basically being locked into to getting that money. He has to get those required at bats unless Cardinals choose to do it on their own.

    #164059
    1964cards
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    We get a lineup yet? Hoping Sosa is starting again tonight.

    #164060
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    I cannot see Carpenter back next year, and doubt Martinez is here as well. Plus depending on where we end up, it might be that Wainwright and Molina are playing their final season in St Louis.

    Fowler’s agreement ends after this season, so he is off the books.

    Still a long way to go and things could change, but the data so far shows a mediocre team that will beat the real low clubs, but cannot compete with the upper echelon teams.

    But shed some salary this year, go in to next with a rotation headlined by Flaherty and Hudson, with maybe Reyes in the mix, and that is a pretty good start.

    #164061
    blingboy
    Participant

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    1. Tommy Edman (S) RF
    2. Dylan Carlson (S) CF
    3. Paul Goldschmidt (R) 1B
    4. Nolan Arenado (R) 3B
    5. Tyler O’Neill (R) LF
    6. Yadier Molina (R) C
    7. Edmundo Sosa (R) 2B
    8. Paul DeJong (R) SS
    9. Kwang Hyun Kim (L) P

    #164062
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Well said bikemike

    #164063
    1964cards
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Here is my SWAG on 2022 payroll. First, You gotta figure the money the team frees up losing Carpenter and Fowler will be used to pay Arenado.

    The Cardinals contacts page of Baseball Reference shows that minimum contractual commitments for 2022 should be about $49M less than 2021. This assumes:

    1. No arbitration amounts have been included. I am guessing this years Arb cost was about $10M. I am estimating that the 2022 total could be in the range of $15M to $20M depending who they decide to retain.
    2. The team buys out Carp and CMart versus picking up the final years of their dreams (cost of $2.5M)
    3. They do not re-sign Miller, Molina and Wainright.

    So, I am guessing the club may have as much as $30M to pursue other player opportunities if they keep payroll flat. There will be more if they decide to let payroll grow.

    #164065
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    1. Dylan Carlson (S) CF
    2. Paul Goldschmidt (R) 1B
    3. Nolan Arenado (R) 3B
    4. Tyler O’Neill (R) LF
    5. Yadier Molina (R) C
    6. Edmundo Sosa (R) 2B
    7. Paul DeJong (R) SS
    8. Lane Thomas (R) RF
    9. Kwang Hyun Kim (L) P

    #164066
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    What’s with Edman scratch?

    #164067
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Torso tightness – Goold

    #164068
    1964cards
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    What is going on with the Cardinal defense. That is two outfield throws that missed the cut off man in this inning. Both misses have allowed the trailing base runners to advance an extra base.

    #164069
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Torso tightness? Just when you thought you had heard it all. I’ve got the grandkids so can’t follow the game, but it sounds like a doozy.

    #164070
    1964cards
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Nice play by Sosa there.

    #164071
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    4 walks, an error, caught stealing, missed cut offs, KK racking up the pitch count, not even done with the 3rd inning.

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