2020 MLB Awards

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  • #145277
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Yep. I already caught that and corrected my post.

    On the metrics being just 25%, understand that prior to 2013, it was 0%. Change is hard.

    #145279
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Whoa. I should have read that entire article you posted more carefully, stlcard25.

    This year only, there appears to be no manager and coach voting – the SDI will be 100%.

    Stepping back and thinking about it, this makes complete sense. Due to the truncated schedule, managers and coaches did not see the teams in the other two divisions of their respective leagues at all in 2020.

    Here is the particular paragraph.

    “Due to the compressed 2020 MLB season, the Rawlings Gold Glove Award qualifications have been amended to rely solely on the SABR Defensive Index this year. The SDI draws on and aggregates two types of existing defensive metrics: those derived from batted ball location-based data and those collected from play-by-play accounts, including data from MLBAM’s Statcast, Sports Information Solutions, and STATS, LLC.”

    This DOES seem to help O’Neill’s chances…

    #145284
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Freddie Freeman is BA’s 2020 Player of the Year. Other finalists were Shane Bieber, Mookie Betts, Jose Ramirez and Fernando Tatis Jr.

    https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/2020-mlb-player-of-the-year-freddie-freeman/

    #145286
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    This DOES seem to help O’Neill’s chances…

    Yep, unless somehow the other two measures hated O’Neills defense and loved Peralta or Akiyama, then it’s gonna be O’Neill.

    #145287
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    For 1st Base:

    Outs Above Average

    Goldy 5
    Belt 3
    Rizzo -3

    DRS

    Rizzo 3
    Goldy 1
    Belt 1

    UZR

    Rizzo 3.9
    Goldy 1.3
    Belt -0.4

    A mix there, but OAA isn’t part of the formula, it seems. So probably gonna be Rizzo.

    #145288
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    For 2nd Base

    Outs Above Average

    Frazier 11
    Wong 8
    Hoerner 4 (5 if including other positions)

    DRS

    Wong 6
    Hoerner 5
    Frazier 4

    UZR

    Wong 3.8
    Frazier 1.9
    Hoerner 0.6

    This one seems close. Frazier has the lead in Statcast, but again that’s not one of the metrics so perhaps Wong will take it again.

    #145292
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Shot, BW? Naw, just wondering why many have him penciled into CF for 2021 if he has a weak bat and is not as good as many think he is defensively. Now, if O’Neill can settle in, though, we may have something.

    #145296
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Bader is plenty good defensively, as we witnessed a bunch of times this year where his catches saved runs in spots where others wouldn’t have gotten there. He’s an excellent backup or a decent starter if you’ve got a good offense. I’ll stick to that until proven otherwise.

    #145298
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    He’s okay if you have bats in the rest of the lineup. If you’re below where you want to be offensively at 3B and in left and right field, you don’t have the luxury of having HB in CF.

    #145299
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    2020 MLB Awards

    #145335
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I like that the coaches and managers have no input on the GG awards. In the past if a player won the silver slugger he had a very good chance of being given a GG. Coaches and managers seemed to be too influenced by offensive numbers like Ozuna’s breakout season with the bat.

    #145357
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    FYI, in 1999 Rafael Palmeiro was an All-Star, MVP-5, won the SS and GG at 1B. All those awards he was worthy of, except for the GG.

    That season Rafael started 128 games at DH, and 28 games at 1B. He logged 246 innings at 1B, and his own teammate Lee Stevens had 1151 innings at 1B. Even in this shortened 2020 season Rafael wouldn’t have qualified for the GG award, with too few innings in the field, and MLB played a full season in 1999.

    This is the extreme outlier of how poorly the GG award has been awarded in the past, and that hasn’t been due to the defensive metrics. There are dozens of examples where the coaches and managers have treated the GG and SS as a combined award, with SS results dominating the voting for GG’s.

    No input from field personnel in future GG awards would be fine with me.

    #145360
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    We will have to see if Rawlings is comfortable making the awards fully metric-driven in the future. Not everyone is comfortable letting the “nerds” decide, and in fairness, defensive metrics are not perfect. Using five of them taking various perspectives is considered necessary to smooth out the rough edges.

    #145376
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    More player pushback…

    #145391
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Heyman weighs in. This has to confirm that jj-cf-stl is right! 😉

    #145416
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Nice that some still think “eyes on” counts. And that it’s not just computers measuring robots.

    #145452
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I am not as big in analytics as some others but I do have to say that sometimes the numbers don’t lie. When it comes to defense I think sometimes fans and award voters just assume that since a certain player has always been great defensively that they still are. Players get older and players can also have slumps on defense or get into bad habits. Voting for the exact same players every single year for the gold glove seems lazy to me.

    #145680
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Molina’s instagram post stating mlb is protecting Johnny Benchs legacy, by snubbing him as a finalist for a GG, is disturbing, almost as much as him stating he’s still the best defensive catcher in mlb. Full blown prima donna attitude.

    #145690
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I am not trying to defend Molina for going public with his concerns. He just made himself look bad for multiple reasons. But for himself internally, he may use these perceived snubs as motivation to work harder. He just needs to stay off social media – and ideally, find a trusted advisor who can give him direction on when to speak out and when to stay quiet. But that probably isn’t going to happen.

    #145717
    Avatar1982 willie
    Participant

    Free

    Well I’m ok with the cardinal players winning but just like a lot of analytics for offens, I think the defensive stuff is just as silly if not more. Wong us great at making the hard plays, problem is the easy plays sometimes elude him and those alone would disqualify him in my eyes. Oneil to me is just an average outfielder though he has a good arm. Yea he makes the plays he gets to but he takes bad lines and doesn’t get to balls he should at times. Errors aren’t even given to players that totally miss a ball or take a bad line in the outfield. It’s pretty much a joke now. I’d personally rather have coaches make the choices but even a lot of them have never played the game so some of their votes wouldn’t be great either.

    #145720
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Wong us great at making the hard plays, problem is the easy plays sometimes elude him and those alone would disqualify him in my eyes.

    That was the case against Wong before. I don’t believe that it is the case now. Do you have any examples from the last year or two that you can think of? Because I feel like that’s probably just your memories of 2014-16 coming back.

    Oneil to me is just an average outfielder though he has a good arm. Yea he makes the plays he gets to but he takes bad lines and doesn’t get to balls he should at times.

    Again, any basis for this? I recall some plays in years past but can’t think of anything he should have gotten that he didn’t this year. On second thought, I do remember one play where he ran into the fence in LCF but it was a heck of a run to get there. I think what the metrics (especially Statcast, which is based on the actual ball hit and not just a theoretical “zone*) account for that the fans who dislike the analytical stuff don’t usually notice is that not all fielders and balls hit are the same. O’Neill, with his very good speed, might get to 10% more balls than an average LF. He might have one clank off his glove. The average fan thinks, geez, O’Neill clanked that one! Meanwhile, the average LF wouldn’t have even gotten there and the ball would be in the gap. Or perhaps Carlson lays out and makes a catch that fans ooh and ahh over, when O’Neill may have gotten there on the run for a much more routine catch.

    Different strokes for different folks, I guess. My point being, every public set of data we have this year tells me what my eyes saw…that O’Neill had a very good year with the glove. Maybe you find the data flawed but it’s not as likely if every single source all comes to the same conclusion. It may not be that way always as I’ve seen him not make some plays before that I thought he should have.

    #145722
    Avatar1982 willie
    Participant

    Free

    I did see some plays by wong that eluded to what I said. I can’t remember specific games but it usually involved his sidearm throwing which pulled guys off the bag. Far as oneill, yea he made the plays he got to and yes he made a few good plays because of his speed. But again, these metrics don’t look at plays that go for hits in a game because a player took a wrong line or came in instead of going back. Those are things a knowledgeable coach would see, not some analytics like approach. It’s fine if oneil wins the award but until I see further improvement in basic outfield areas, I will never say he is a great outfielder.

    #145723
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    But again, these metrics don’t look at plays that go for hits in a game because a player took a wrong line or came in instead of going back. Those are things a knowledgeable coach would see, not some analytics like approach.

    While I agree that some of the metrics do not see such things, there are some (specifically Statcast) that take those things into account without the bias of one’s vision. If a ball is hit at such angle and velocity, a player should have X chance of getting to it. If they do or don’t, it changes their overall rating. I trust that data as much as I trust the ball speed and shot data we see on a golf broadcast or running or pass speed on an NFL broadcast. The stuff they can collect nowadays is impressive.

    Analytics will never replace the coaches who have to make decisions on the fly, though. But they do help paint a picture.

    Regarding Wong (and the infielders in general), Goldy has made them all look a lot better the last couple of years. It was a mess when Carp and Jmart manned 1B.

    #146154
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    For those who like popularity contests, you can help recognize Goldy…

    #146156
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Wong wins his third and O’Neill his first.

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