September 1, 2017 at 7:52 am #32131PadsFSParticipantPaid - Annual
With our lineup not really giving us what we need, but still being completely full of average-ish players. Where can we upgrade?
CA Molina Kelly
1B Carpenter Voit
2B Wong Valera/Mejia
SS DeJong Diaz
3B Gyorko Garcia
RF Grichuk Piscotty
CF Fowler Bader
LF Pham O’Neill
One thing I’m worried about is Pham, Wong, and DeJong replicating this year’s production. Pham’s expected batting average is .268, while Wong’s is .260, and DeJong’s is .253. That will hurt big time next year if they don’t keep that up. We will just be treading water again even with upgrades elsewhere.
With Pham, we’ve seen this before in Ryan Ludwick, who put up a 5.4 WAR season in 2008 at 29 years old only to never reach those levels again.September 1, 2017 at 8:23 am #3213514NyquisTParticipant
Well the good news is that you can’t make projections based on another player’s performance. I know that Diaz’ sophomore jinx is still fresh on the mind of a lot of folks. As much as I like Aledmys, I was concerned about the “jinx” overthe winter as so many were penciling him in for another great season in ’17. Hey, but DeJong put up about the same results as we could’ve expected from Diaz.
The “jinx” will expire at the end of this season… so we just might see Diaz back in ’18.
Pham = Ludwick… uh, wait.. what?September 1, 2017 at 8:56 am #32138
Since the Cards need a upgrade which position needs upgrading the most and what are the options?
3B-Gyorko has done okay although he has shown he is better filling a utility role IMHO.So that leaves FeeeAgency and the options are slim after Mike Moustakas and Todd Frazier.Moustakas having a big power year and Frazier is hitting for power and decent OBP but low average.The other option is 1B and Hosmer is top choice but KC probably will keep him at almost any cost.After Hosmer the options are Duda and Logan Morrison and Make Reynolds and Yonder Alonso.I question how much of a real upgrade any would be over Carpenter.
My choice would be signing Jay Bruce and go hard after Moustakas also.If Moustakas go elsewhere or stays in KC then Todd Frazier would be next option.Trading OF surplus to upgrade bullpen could be a option.Bruce or Frazier would offer 25-30 Home run power.I like JD Martinez also but his defense is well below average.That is my two cents worth.Bruce would offer a LH power bat which the Cards lack.Of course if I had my way Fowler would be traded along with Piscotty and Pham.A Outfield with Grichuk and Jay Sierra and Bader/Mags Sierra and O’Neill would be okay.September 1, 2017 at 8:59 am #32139
Jay Bruce typo.Sorry.September 1, 2017 at 10:03 am #3215014NyquisTParticipant
bw, I believe that Piscotty should get a pass on this season considering what he is going through.
I’d get rid of Fowler in a heartbeat. I’m thinking that the Cards will be more apt to add by way of trades rather than FAs. They have many decisions to make about the 40-man roster and going 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 could alleviate some of that concern…. adding free agents just makes those options more difficult.September 1, 2017 at 3:42 pm #32181PadsFSParticipantPaid - Annual
I have no idea why there is so much consternation over Fowler. He is producing well, above his career averages even. He’s doing exactly what we wanted him to do. Let’s put this in perspective:
Fowler has a line of .258/.358/.471/.829 ~ 110 wRC+ for the year in the MAJOR LEAGUES.
There is no guarantee that Sierra (.267/.312/.352 ~ 85 wRC+ in AA) or Bader (.283/.348/.381/.816 ~ 96 wRC+ in AAA w/24.6% K-rate) or O’Neill (.239/.317/.483/.800 ~ 102 wRC+ in AAA w/27.6% K-rate) will even be productive major leaguers at all.
Right now, Fowler is out-producing all of them with the bat at a level much higher than the prospects. If we upgrade in the outfield via trade, we will likely have to include one of these guys along with Grichuk or Piscotty. If we keep Pham, there is really no difference in playing him or Fowler in LF or CF.
I like the idea of upgrading SS –> shifting DeJong to 3B, or upgrading 3B. We can shift Gyorko (or DeJong if he struggles) back to being a super-sub, ala Allen Craig in 2011 and Carpenter in 2012.September 1, 2017 at 5:22 pm #32194forsch31ParticipantFree
I am not worried about Pham producing at a high level. He showed he could do this in the minors. The only concerns about him are whether his eyesight stays under control and that he stays healthy. He also needs to be playing CF before Fowler or Grichuk.
I think Wong has learned a lot this season and may not replicate the same numbers but should be close.
I do have concerns whether DeJong will be able to produce like he has this year. I think he could do this eventually but I am worried about a “sophomore slump”.
Gyorko needs to return to super sub.
IMO, we could upgrade at 3B, SS, 1B or OF. Grichuk needs to go. We can afford to trade 1 of Wong, DeJong and Gyorko. We can trade Carpenter for an upgrade. SS needs to be someone like Andrelton Simmons. Bruce would not be a good signing. He does not upgrade what we have very much. We need a MAJOR upgrade if we acquire anyone in the OF.September 1, 2017 at 5:30 pm #32195CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
Bw52, please provide evidence that Gyrko is better in a utility roll.September 1, 2017 at 5:37 pm #32196
Gyorko faded badly after the All-star break and has not been nowhere as good the 2nd half.Sluggish bat has been evident.That’s way IMHO Gyorko would be more effective getting 400 ABs instead of dragging butt most of this half of the season.September 1, 2017 at 6:58 pm #32197Euro DandyParticipantFree
My thoughts are pretty much in line with those of forsch, so I want retype the details. Would love to upgrade SS, 1B and RF and have DeJong/Gyorko combining for 3B/utility. Carp and either Grichuk or Piscotty would be dealt.September 1, 2017 at 7:16 pm #32198RatsbuddyParticipantFree
Sometimes when I read these posts I am sooooo glad some of you posters are NOT running the Cardinals. Surely some of these posts are just people dreaming???
Yes, I agree, i’d like Ozzie Smith at SS, Don Mattingly at 1B, Hank Aaron in RF, and Ryne Sandberg at 2B. It would be nice to deal Carp/Grichuk/Piscotty for Willie Mays too.
The majority of what you see on the field now is what the 2018 Cardinals will look like. The only thing that’s needed is a power bat and a late inning relief guy. Most of the rest is going to stay the same. We are just 1, maybe 2, players away from being right there.
r/RatSeptember 1, 2017 at 8:38 pm #32201
Rats did you decide that the Cards are only a couple of players away from being a real contender before or after Barnaby Jones?Expecting better results with the basically the same roster is nonsense.Too much inconsistent pitching and hitting and poor defense added together with lousy base running and poor fundamentals does not a contender make. Most here realize that there will be some roster turnover this off season and not the mass reconstruction several have wished for.This team has to solidify the rotation and fix the bullpen plus get some big offense from somewhere.Expecting Just a couple of additions to fix the problems is risky business and setting up for another crappy season hoping for comebacks,from all the guys who had poor seasons and hoping anyone who played well in 2017 can repeat in 2018.Too much wishful thinking.September 2, 2017 at 3:46 am #32219RatsbuddyParticipantFree
Yeah BW, I think Piscotty, Carpenter, Fowler, Oh, Cecil, Diaz, Grichuk, and whoever else will rebound and do better in 2018. With a big bat in the lineup and a late inning reliever I can see the Cardinals winning 90+ games in 2018. Especially if Alex Reyes returns.September 2, 2017 at 4:16 pm #32247ILcardfanParticipantFree
I would focus on a power bat at 1B. Deal carpenter for late inning relief help or prospects and then clear some of the log jam in the outfield. I don’t know who’s out there at 1B, would be nice to find someone who maybe is not a full time starter yet but is ready to be. Ideal situation would be a team with extra first basemen who need an outfielder.September 2, 2017 at 4:43 pm #32248LoganAlpha30X7ParticipantFree
Though Rats, weren’t some of them supposed to rebound and do better this year…and look how that turned out…September 2, 2017 at 6:10 pm #32253TexasCardParticipantFree
Add manager to the list. I’m through with the current one.September 3, 2017 at 11:53 am #32305SoonerinNCParticipantPaid - Annual
I somewhat agree with Scudder. We tend to be impatient. We tend to be negative and ready to dump anyone at the first slump.
Before we go nuts trading prospects think Jeff Bagwell for Larry Anderson and John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander. Or look at the early trade action for Adam Jones, Josh Donaldson, Jose Bautista, Edwin Encarnacion, Corey Kluber, Anthony Rizzo, Jake Arrieta and Nelson Cruz.
The difference between us fans and the pros is that they have a much better idea about the upside of a player.
Just because Diaz melted down doesn’t mean that DeJong will suffer the same fate. It is all about adjustments and I believe DeJong has shown an ability to adjust. We are talking about moving a potential 30 homer shortstop with at least average defense off the position. Sure he hit 13 of them at Memphis but at the same rate per plate appearance as he did at St Louis when he hit his 20th. A little troubling that he hasn’t hit one for awhile. But he is still hitting the ball hard.
Diaz just got totally out of kilter. On his front foot, lunging and wild swings at everything. He is coming on lately at Memphis. Budda seems to have got him more stable at the plate and Steve Selby is complimentary of his defense at both short and third.
Having said that I do believe Mo has not shown an ability to time his few trades to get a maximum return. On the other hand he has few if any guys he let go lite things up with their new team.
The Cardinals face real challenges this year and the front office can make some collosal mistakes or on the other hand make a breakthrough deal or two. You have Bader, Sierra, O’Neil, Adolis Garcia, Flaherty, Hudson, Gallen, Alcantara, Helsley, Alvarez, Sosa, Kelly, Knizer, Machado close with some seriously blocked except for the pitchers, most of whom can bump a number of our current bullpen staff.
Then there are those like Valera, Wisdom, Martini, Anthony Garcia and Mejia who suddenly are either solid AAAA’s or key pieces on someones 25 man roster. We could have all of them exit the system this year. But how do you keep them on the roster with the above group pending. And a number of them will qualify as 6 year free agents.
Baseball is a game of adjustments. I doubt that we have an overwhelming list of all-stars in the above names. But with the right adjustments a number of them could reach that status. For example; Wisdom is an excellent defender at third. If he can make adjustments to cut his strikeouts and raise his average to something like .260 with 30+ homers, who wouldn’t want him as their third baseman.September 3, 2017 at 1:15 pm #32313
Wisdom will probably go elsewhere as a minor league FA.Philadelphia always could use some help.Somebody will give him a Spring training invite and I think he could be a decent reserve/spot starter for some team.September 3, 2017 at 1:43 pm #32318CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
I dont believe Wisdom is a minor league FA until after 2018. I doubt the Cards protect him from the ruke 5 draft and I doubt anyone selects him. Most likely he will be back at 3B for Memphis next year.
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