June 11, 2021 at 10:43 pm #163712Brock20ParticipantFree
After 54 years I’m done rooting. We have not had pitching since 2011 and this ownership cannot recognize this which is evident by not acquiring any in the last 10 years . Seriously , Baseball Tonight or any other baseball show for that matter never talks about any of the ace pitchers the Cardinals have because they have none . No doubt ownership figures we have won 2 WS in the last 15 years and numerous playoffs and we should be satisfied with that . Guess I’m wrong that I thought you played in an effort to win the WS every year do you not ? The only way this team is going to seriously contend again is when we stop going to games for a while until the get the hint they have to put a seriously contending team on the field . This is being to feel like the thought process in the 70’s and we know how well that time period turned out right !
A good professional team does not blow a 5-1 lead , they close it out as winners do.
(Topic title changed by moderator to better reflect the subject matter.)June 12, 2021 at 5:55 am #163719ZTRParticipantFree
So, no good baseball team ever blows a 5-1 lead?
Without looking I’d bet every WS champion since the league began blew a few big leads during the course of their season.
Even when fully healthy this edition of the Cardinals had holes and question marks but so does almost every other team.
I agree that, for whatever reasons, the FO seems to have done a poor job constructing the roster – some of it looks like plain old bad luck though.June 12, 2021 at 6:46 am #163722
I can agree that the current roster is as bad or worse than anything I have experienced since the 70s. It is exacerbated by the very thin talent in the upper levels of the system. We have pulled Carlson and O’Neal out of that system recently, but it is too soon to tell if they will be long term successes. My personal opinion is that reliance on statisticians and analysts who don’t know what end of the bat to hold got completely out of hand in recent years. We develop pitchers who can throw hard but do not know how to pitch and batters who can swing hard but do not know how to hit. I can imagine the personnel involved in player development are great at integrating cutting edge technologies to create a multi-platform total immersive learning experience, or some steaming pile such as that.
I do think a lot of the focus in recent years has been on developing the area around the ballpark into sort of a baseball theme park type of thing complete with living and work spaces for those attracted to the lively atmosphere. People continue to buy tickets and tune in games, and crowds are returning to the area, so it seems to be working. It doesn’t for me though, so I have long since stopped buying tickets and tuning in regularly.June 12, 2021 at 10:20 am #163736Paul7ParticipantFree
What percentage of fans do you think are serious ones who think this way vs. the rest who enjoy the Disney baseball theme park experience?June 12, 2021 at 10:36 am #163739bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
It is never as much fun to follow your team when things are rough. I have always felt sort of blessed that I was genetically engineered to be a Cardinal fan. My dad was a big fan and that enthusiasm was passed on to me.
I have followed the club since I was 8 years old in the ‘60s. We have won 10 pennants in my lifetime. Not too many organizations can say that.
There have been eras where it was more frustration than anything. I always harp on here about how the ‘70s were a decade of lost opportunity. Even the ‘80s were filled with ups and downs – good one year, did not compete the next.
The last 20 years are easily the most sustained success the team has had in my lifetime. I will never abandon ship, but understand the frustration going on.
You wonder how we cannot seem to keep pitchers healthy. You also wonder why it seem reluctant to play young, talented guys, and let send them away a little too often. And I wonder where Shildt comes up with the batting orders he runs out there everyday.
But I am not in that clubhouse, so that is just a fan always thinking they have a better way of doing things.June 12, 2021 at 11:00 am #163742
What percentage of fans do you think are serious ones who think this way vs. the rest who enjoy the Disney baseball theme park experience?
A large and ever increasing percentage. It drives the changes being made to the game itself as well as the organizational modus operandi.June 12, 2021 at 12:43 pm #163749gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
This roster, when healthy, is plenty good enough to win this division. The problem is that we haven’t been healthy and our depth is very subpar. I know we aren’t the only team dealing with injuries but usually we have enough depth to cover it. This year we don’t. Sosa and occasionally Knizner have been the only bench players to do anything for us. Thomas, Williams, Nogowski, Carp, Moroff, and Hurst have been dismal.
The real reason this team isn’t winning is lack of pitching depth though. People like to complain about Goldy, DeJong, Carp, Bader, etc….. but this team is a winner when we are clicking with our pitching. Our rotation has been decimated and our bullpen has been much weaker than we anticipated. Guys like Ponce, Helsley, Elledge, Whitley, Webb, Hicks, and Miller haven’t delivered. Kim and CMart have been erratic. Mikolas can’t stay on the field and Jack is now hurt. Waino has been our only dependable healthy starter while Cabrera, Gallegos, and Reyes are our only weapons in the pen but we can’t use those guys everyday.
While some may think that Liberatore and Thompson may be options later in the year I do not agree, especially Thompson. They both were rushed to AAA and are overmatched, especially Thompson.
This is an organization that prides itself on its depth and the ability to promote players from the minors to plug holes. That has been an epic failure this year. I think many of us, myself included, overestimated the quality of our depth. One look at the records of our minor league clubs and the results of those promoted to St. Louis should require an immediate re-evaluation of that sentiment.June 12, 2021 at 1:28 pm #16375314NyquisTParticipant
Its tough being a Cardinal fan these days. Especially with the team going through a bad streak of poor play. There’s a sense of frustration in the fan base because there’s a great deal of underachievement in the ranks. If you follow the farm system things are worse and it leaves me feeling that things may get worse in the next few years.
There are the injuries that has exposed the true depth of this organization. Good luck finding one bench player to pinch hit that would garner much faith for success. The high hopes of the off-season have been dashed. So many of the youngsters we were looking at with high hopes have not panned out. The bullpen that was thought to be a strength just isn’t. The rotation is now a mess and thread bare thin.
I also feel that the organization’s priorities have not been where they should be. Ownership appears complacent and the Front Office has been consistently off base with a string of poor signings and the trading of prospects that could be producing here but are now producing elsewhere. You can make up a team of players dispatched from here that might be better than what our lineup is today. And that’s not even mentioning the rotation pieces.
All of this is disheartening for us fans. I would feel better if there was help om the way from the minors but I don’t see much coming. Maybe a handful. There just isn’t too much left to fall back on. We used to be a whole lot better. How did things get so bad so quickly? If you want to blame the person at the top in the FO you’d be flat out correct
But keep the faith baby. I will always be a Cards fan despite the goings-on at the present time.June 12, 2021 at 2:21 pm #163757
I would point out that while some people may be done rooting for the team, others are just done ringing the cash register.June 12, 2021 at 3:19 pm #163760bccranParticipant
I’d be careful labeling yourself an impatient fair weather fan.June 12, 2021 at 4:03 pm #163763Nigel TParticipantPaid - Three Months
Do you realize we are basking in the glow of one of the finest eras in both Cardinal and baseball history. In the words of Dr. Emilio Lizardo, “You are the weakest individual I have ever known, John Bigboote'” This applies to every fair weather fan who feels like this is tougher on him or her than Goldy or Nolan.June 12, 2021 at 4:21 pm #163769PugsleyAddamsParticipantPaid - Annual
Cock & bull stories. From Nyquist to Bling to Brock20 to even BicycleMike. None of us will ever stop rooting for our Birds. Next time we win a couple of games consecutively, we’ll have our Cards caps on and our banners a waving. God love our Birds and all who root for them.June 12, 2021 at 9:43 pm #163805Nathan Leopold Jr.ParticipantFree
I’ll never be done rooting for the Cardinals. I am done having any confidence in the front office’s desire or ability to do what is necessary to win a World Series.June 12, 2021 at 9:58 pm #163810StpcardParticipantFree
This front office has a player in Matt carpenter batting 183 and he continues to play week after week and year after year. They do not have any level of commitment or desire to be champions. This franchise puts hope in young players that do not make a splash on an elite level and just hope they will get better. If they aren’t making a huge impact they won’t in the future. Players are who they are.
Teams with front offices like the
cardinals don’t get what they want they get what they deserve. This group for 7 years now has underperformed and put a team on the field that is an also ran.June 12, 2021 at 10:21 pm #1638121982 willieParticipantPaid - Annual
I’ll always be a cardinal fan as long as I’m a baseball fan. Losing years doesn’t bother me really though. I been through quite a few back in 70s and 80s, even early nineties. The problem Isa lot of younger fans have gotten spoiled because are teams have routinely been competitive though we haven’t ever been really great very often. While it’s been a longer version, I wouldnt compare it to the 60s, 40s or even the 80s teams really. I think you can do what the front office has done far as consistently fielding competitive teams when all things are going right or if they are willing to be big spenders. The Cardinals have chosen not to be big spenders and things have went off the rails here up and down the org. I prefer if you aren’t going to be a big player in the markets, that you have to be smarter in other areas and realize that you have to sometimes step back to take two steps forward. Trying to win every year at the cost of never really winning the big prizes can be costly.June 13, 2021 at 5:55 am #163815Cardinal in FranceParticipantFree
My entire youth and baseball playing days – grade school, high school, college – passed by without a single NL pennant in St. Louis, until that glorious year of 1964. If I could survive the battering disappointments of all those seasons (despite having some of the best players of all time) I guess I can weather this one too. A real Cardinal fan is always a Cardinal fan. (I did have a brief hiatus in the early 1990s when I was working in Toronto and joined temporarily in cheering for the Blue Jays during their two great WS seasons).
Rah Cardinals!June 13, 2021 at 6:34 am #163816dac8b9Participant
Teams with front offices like the
cardinals don’t get what they want they get what they deserve. This group for 7 years now has underperformed and put a team on the field that is an also ran.
I know people get frustrated with Mo because he is seemingly risk averse in his strategy to pretty much everything (from not signing the Harper and Machado types to how we have historically approached the draft and international free agency, we tend to take smaller risks rather than big swings). That said, I think that is probably more driven by Dewitt than Mo. Frankly, the easiest way to acquire star talent is to tank for several years, but this fan base would never tolerate that level of losing as evidenced by this thread of people ready to give up their fandom in a year we’ve had bad luck with injuries but we’re competitive when healthy.
It’s true that front offices have gotten smarter and we have not been at the forefront of forward thinking front offices in years most likely. I’ve wanted a front office shakeup for a couple years now. But that wouldn’t change who our owner is, so it’s likely the risk averse strategy would stay the same even with a new president and Gm.June 13, 2021 at 10:21 am #163830gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Frankly, the easiest way to acquire star talent is to tank for several years, but this fan base would never tolerate that level of losing as evidenced by this thread of people ready to give up their fandom in a year we’ve had bad luck with injuries but we’re competitive when healthy.
You might be right dac but I have often wondered what this fan base would really tolerate. I mean we call ourselves the best fans in baseball right? Surely the BFIB would realize how difficult it is to churn out a winner every year when you are always drafting middle of the pack and your payroll is usually in the 10-15 range. That is hard to do. I know that teams like the Rays, A’s, and Indians do it but I am not sure how. They mush have the best front offices in all of MLB.
I have argued before that we should take a step back, regroup, restock, then make another run at it. I am not talking about a complete tear down, just a one year mini rebuild. If I had to choose between a five year run of win totals of 95, 95, 95, 75, 75 vs 85, 85, 84, 87, 86 I would take the first group.June 13, 2021 at 11:26 am #163842bccranParticipant
It can be frustrating, but there are 29 other major league teams, most of which are interested in improving their rosters with any opportunities available. Trades? Sure, but most trading partners what it to be weighted in their direction. Plus, there are geographic preferences that some players have. It’s not as easy as some think.
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