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Readers here already know the names, but here are their combined stats:
Andrew Miller is less than two weeks into a multi-year deal, but the early returns have been really rough, especially given the shakiness he showed in '18.
— Andrew Simon (@AndrewSimonMLB) April 6, 2019
What is that? About $80 million for negative value? I was all about trying to pry Kenley Jansen a few years back and although he has his own issues now, he would have to completely tank to not be worth the big deal he got.
I guess the lesson is…sign low $$ “value guys” (Oh, Norris), certain high $$ guaranteed stars in their prime (like your Chapmans or Jansens), or don’t sign anyone at all?
Uh oh. The guys you want to avoid sound a lot like baseball’s beleaguered middle class, the ones who believe owners are colluding against them because they aren’t getting the kinds of deals they expect! Hmmmmm. Could it be market correction instead?
In the days of specialization, being a mid 30s pitcher who can’t pull off the elite results they did in their 20s is likely to result in lowered deals, yes.
For what it’s worth, I’m not sure they are something to avoid. I was more just questioning the line of thinking that would need to go into future deals.
The carpel tunnel surgery will put Cecil on the shelf for most of the season ( I believe the Cards will keep him there). Just another Mozeliak misread of talent and another example of… something like “he will definitely shore up the bullpen”. Just cross Cecil off permanently.
At least they didn’t bring Rosenthal back. He’s off to a rough start as a Nat. Thus far he has 3 appearances, faced 7 batters, 4 hits/3 walks, and all 7 have scored earned runs.
I happened to be watching live his first outing. He threw a pitch so wild to the backstop that Bob Carpenter did the “just a bit outside” joke. Then the color analyst followed up with “I think he hit the mascot.” Hate to see that for Rosenthal.
In today’s @stltoday: Andrew Miller, supposed to be the sure thing in the #STLCards pen, is instead pitching up some painful memories. He is not the free agent relievers who flopped before him, but he must now pitch out from beneath their shadows. https://t.co/CJnCPZO625
— Ben Frederickson (@Ben_Fred) April 7, 2019
Thirty four years old coming off a subpar, injury filled season that followed extreme over use the preceding five seasons. I mean what possibly could go wrong? There we plenty of folks warning about this signing as a bad move, and plenty that defended it as a great one. We are most likely witnessing yet another bad deal unfold.
Relief pitcher’s results are magnified simply due to mathematics. That is why they tend to have good years, followed by bad years. They only pitch maybe 60 innings per year, and thus do not get the time to work through bad outings, or they will have some great outings but do not pitch enough to have a real bad appearance.
Thus anytime you take on a contract for a bullpen guy, it is high risk. I think Miller will be okay. He looks to have good stuff, but needs to get on top of his command (same story of most of our pitchers in the early going).
If I could manage the Cardinals pitching staff, I would send Hicks and Reyes back to Memphis, and get them stretched out as starters down there. Give them the innings they need to build on that great potential each guy has, and shake off the rust from sitting around the MLB bullpen. Then I would bring up the two guys from Memphis who have been the most consistent in the Spring and early MiLB season as far as hitting the strike zone, and being effective. Put those guys with Gant, Brebbia, Mayers, hopefully get Miller consistent, and have Leone around for mop-up duty.
bikemike, who is your set up man and closer?
Not bikemike, but . . . . Ha, the question that can’t be answered without looking bad later. We all (at least most) had an inkling of this before the season’s first pitch anyway, which points to a bigger problem.
Having said that, I’d like Brebbia to be tried as the setup guy, whatever that is. Give him higher leverage opportunities now.
Right on, Euro! Brebbia has to be given a shot at set-up man status….now! Choosing your set-up man and closer roles is about one thing and one thing only…..trust. Who do you trust? With the present cast of characters inhabiting the Cardinal pen, the name “Brebbia” just screams out at you in associated with the vacant set-up man position. And closer? Carlos Martinez better heal real soon or we’re in some kind of serious trouble.
I was more probing the part of his desire to send Hicks down to become a starter. If Hicks isn’t closing, who is?
I was more probing the part of his desire to send Hicks down to become a starter. If Hicks isn’t closing, who is?
I think that’s a great question for Mo. Given that Hicks struggled last year, what are you going to do when he struggles again this year?
I like Webb. He should have made the team out of ST.
Gallegos is still unproven at this level. Not sure what to expect from him.
Reyes should probably be stretched out as a starter in Memphis. We can find a spot for him in the rotation when he is ready.
Gyroko as our backup SS is concerning.
I think we have all learned a painful lesson. Spending money on FA relievers just doesn’t work for us.
Cecil, Gregerson, Holland, and now apparently Miller have all been disasters.
Our two best relievers right now are Gant and Brebbia, both extremely low draft picks making the league minimum. I still believe in Hicks. His stuff is nasty he just has to harness it. Mayers is solid, Leone looks better this year. I like Webb. I think Helsley and Cabrera could still contribute in the pen before the year is out.
One wildcard is CMart. Is he going to be in the pen when healthy? Guys like Reyes, Hudson, Ponce, and Gomber should probably be starters. They seem more comfortable in that role.
In short I still think we have a chance to have a decent pen. We just have to put the pieces in the right place. But you won’t hear me making the argument to sign anymore FA relievers unless it is a low risk option like Bud Norris, who is available by the way.
The post steroid era or the era of stricter testing for performance enhancing substances has resulted in age-based performance curves returning to historic norms (e.g. no Roger Clemens miracles). Players reaching their early thirties are most likely past their prime … you can get good seasons, but not career level years. Contracts or offers are starting to reflect this reality.
Having said this:
– Cecil multi- year contract started at age 30 season
– Gregerson multi-year contract started at age 34 season
– Miller multi-year contract started at age 34 season
– Holland one-year deal started at age 32 seasonIt seems as if the front office is going against the performance curve trend. They are willing to pay for past performance and expect similar perfoance … almost ignoring the aging issue.
By definition, almost all FA signings are against the aging curve. That is one reason the current labor unrest exists.
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