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It might be interesting to see how this evolves over the offseason.
Herrera: C
Burleson: 1B RHSP, PH RHRP
Donovan: 2B, backup COF
Winn: SS
Arenado: 3B
Walker: RF
Siani: CF
Nootbaar: LF
Contreras: DH RHSP, 1B LHSP
Pages: backup C
Saggese: Utility Infielder
Baker: DH LHSP, PH LHRP
Koperniak or Barrero: Utility OutfielderGray: SP1
Fedde: SP2
Pallante: SP3
Mikolas: SP4
McGreevey: SP5Helsley: Closer
Romero: Setup
Fernandez: Setup
King: Setup
Liberatore: Middle Relief
Leahy: Middle Relief
Roycroft: Middle Relief
Matz: Long ReliefThere are probably lots of bullpen possibilities/configurations. I still think Graceffo ends up in there and O’Brien may also be in the mix. Matz could be higher leverage too along with Liberatore. But I think this is close to where we’re at TODAY. Note that today, I have Gorman in Memphis. You may quibble with Baker being on the roster, but I do think he makes a lot of sense in the DH vs LHSP role plus as a power PHer off the bench.
I get this is a current state view, but Goold reported that Baker may be on the move to Asia. Unless injured, Gorman will be on the team.
Agreed Gorman will be on the team. That is really interesting about Baker since he is in the 40 man and has received some playing time. Maybe he could be a star in Japan though and feast on the slower fastballs.
I had not heard that about Baker. I’m not sure how well he fits. But he could be useful in this arrangement.
The day that they announced Contreras’ move to 1B it pretty much sealed Baker’s fate. He has little opportunity in STL now.
I’m also beginning to think that Contreras may be the everyday 1B with Burly as the DH/LF/trade bait guy.
There is plenty of time for Mo and/or Bloom to take a wrecking ball to the active roster. There is no real good reason to cling to what you’ve been losing with. We know shedding payroll is an objective, but they never said they wouldn’t do anything else.
Yes I think the opening day roster will look much different than it does today. There are still several subtractions on the way. I just hope that Mo doesn’t try to overthink it and play 3D chess with these trades. All he is going to get out of it is a headache.
I would have thought this would be the year the Cardinals would actually play Baker. At least in a platoon at DH with Burleson.
I would have thought this would be the year the Cardinals would actually play Baker. At least in a platoon at DH with Burleson.
That is what I thought too but I guess Contreras foiled those plans by not agreeing to a trade. Of course they don’t HAVE to move Contreras to 1B but apparently they are more interested in playing Herrera than Baker.
How horrible of a catcher is Contraras? Could he play the role of one starting pitcher’s ‘personal’ catcher, kinda like Tim McCarver and Steve Carlton? Obviously, we don’t have a Steve Carlton on the roster, but if Contrares could learn one starting pitcher, inside out, I don’t see why this wouldn’t work to get more lumber in the lineup thirty games per season.
The announcement of moving Contreras off C was odd to me. Contreras has an plus arm and is slightly above average at blocking. He is definitely below average at framing, but the pitch calling seemed fine to me and is the easist thing for the coaching staff to influence.
I like Herrera’s bat but it isn’t as good as Contreras’s and he is worse than Contreras defensively. Pages is average defensively and horrible with the bat and is a clear hole in the lineup if he starts. I tend to much prefer defense but starting Contreras at C delivers the most overall value for the lineup and roster construction.
It will be interesting to see what the Cards do at C the next few years. All 3 of Contreras, Pages, and Herrera will be under contract for at least 3 more years. Crooks and Bernal are also in the wings and 1 of the 2 will hopefully pan out to be in the fold. I imagine Herrera and Pages could both be trase candidates as long as Contreras wants to stay in STL.
I think the decision was made for 2 reasons. First and foremost, Contreras is getting to his mid thirties and they want to keep him out of crouching and having balls and bats flung at him to keep him healthy and in the lineup. The second reason is that the club needs room to play its young catchers to make decisions for the future. We have a glut of catchers and we need to see who stays and who goes.
Contreras’s problem was/is that the Cardinals didn’t/haven’t figured out the pitching end of game prep and in game management without Molina’s involvement, whether on or off the field. How many years had it been since the Cardinals had to cultivate the expertise to call a game from the dugout independent of Yadi? The other catchers’ youth and inexperience obscures the issue. Contreras would probably do fine on another team like he did on that winning Cubs team.
I’d like to see them resign Kitteridge if they don’t trade Helsley before spring training…may be able to limit Helsley’s appearances and then ship him at the deadline with a fresher arm.
Of course money would be a factor here being that the Cardinals can barely rub 2 nickels together
Maybe they think Crooks is their catcher of the future and they want to make sure they have room for him to play in St. Louis at some point in 2025. BTW, Springfield has Crooks, Bernal, and Sammy Hernandez all listed on their roster, with Crooks being the oldest of the three. They also list Bryan Torres, who actually could be the closest to reaching the majors, and they have Carlos Linares who hasn’t been able to hit.
I don’t really like the CA and CF outlook. Those two spots seem pencilled in and neither gives me any confidence.
mud said:
BTW, Springfield has Crooks, Bernal, and Sammy Hernandez all listed on their roster, with Crooks being the oldest of the three.
In 2025, Crooks will start for Memphis. Bernal will be the Springfield starter and Hernandez will be the top catcher for Peoria. The only reason Sammy was at Double-A was as injury insurance at the end of the year. He didn’t play there.
They are spread out fine currently, though in another year, something may have to give. Herrera and Pages may have 2025 to try to improve on their deficiencies. Only one of them may continue in 2026.
Thinking about the 2025 26 man roster is something to do on this dreary day waiting for the big snowstorm to hit this evening. Major acquisitions are not going to happen, unless we get a playable guys back as part of a bundle type deal to move a contract. It would likely be a warm body since we do need to field a team. Besides that, we might stumble upon another Palacios. How handy would that be. Failing that, I think Vilade might be able to make the team as a useful end of the bench guy. No worries if he sits. In AAA he played CF in 65 games in 2023 and 25 in 2024. It looks like he has also filled in around in infield, probably in a pinch, but he did it now and then. So he is not some plodding brick hands with no arm. Nobody wants Scott up here on an organizational need assignment to get the bat knocked out of his hands or sit on the bench.
I think Vilade is the direct competition with Koperniak for 5th outfielder. Unless a true CFer is added to put Siani as 5th outfielder, one of those 2 is probably making the team.
Revisiting this thread I started a couple months back now that we are a few games into Spring. Looking over what I had, despite about 10 acquisitions of AAAA level players since then, I think we are still shooting for a similar roster. Here’s where I’m at now:
Herrera: C
Burleson: 1B RHSP, PH RHRP
Donovan: 2B, backup COF
Winn: SS
Arenado: 3B
Walker: RF
Siani: CF
Nootbaar: LF
Contreras: DH RHSP, 1B LHSP
Pages: backup C
Saggese: Utility Infielder
Baker: DH LHSP, PH LHRP
Koperniak or Barrero: Utility OutfielderGray: SP1
Fedde: SP2
Pallante: SP3
Mikolas: SP4
McGreevey: SP5Helsley: Closer
Romero: Setup
Fernandez: Setup
O’Brien: Setup
King: Middle Relief
Liberatore: Middle Relief
Leahy: Middle Relief
Matz: Long Relief (or traded)There are 5 guys who I’m watching closely who may change this up:
Helman – his versatility makes a lot of sense and he could easily displace Saggese if he can hit.
Barrero – Mentioned above with Koperniak because it’s a close call. I think this guy is going to be the surprise of Spring training on the position player side. I’m definitely more intrigued having watched a little bit of him.
Nick Anderson – If he’s healthy and back to being effective, he’s got a great chance to make the pen.
Graceffo – He was lights out in his debut. I’ve been predicting for a long time now that he will be in the MLB pen this season in an Andre Pallante ‘22 & ‘24 type swing man role.
Munoz – He looked good in his first pen outing and feels like a good fit where he could end up in a back end pen role by season’s end.
I still think one of Fedde or Matz gets traded (or maybe both) giving McGreevey the green light to start and one of the 3 I just mentioned to move into the pen.
I still have a hard time believing Gorman will start in Memphis regardless of what happens with Arenado. I think Gorman is one of the guys they want to give 500 AB’s to in order to really see what they have. My guess is Baker is the odd man out and goes to Memphis.
You’re right GScottar. I completely forgot that I had removed Gorman altogether. I honestly don’t know what to do with him. I think they want Donovan at 2nd (rather than putting him in the OF with Noot in CF). I guess he can go in Baker’s spot but that doesn’t really make any sense given Baker’s RH bat actually helps the roster. They still could put Gorman in Memphis if he struggles this Spring but it sure sounds like they want to play him as much as possible. With Arenado staying, it affects Gorman, Burleson, and Saggese as they all see their roles declined unless they can play at a higher level than they have.
For now, it will be wait and see if someone gets hurt. Injuries often sort these problems out.
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