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Assuming we’re all realistic now and have abandoned all hope of a magical Cardinal resurgence, what can we expect from the second half? A complete makeover seems unlikely, acquiring a fistful of top-notch starting pitchers doesn’t seem in the cards (no pun intended). Can the existing team be improved?
I am expecting some of the expiring contract guys to be dealt (Monty, Flaherty, Hicks, DeJong, Stratton) along with O’Neill and perhaps Carlson or Edman. Younger guys like Herrera, Baker, and Yepez could also be dealt. I don’t know if the Cardinals will be able to bring back major league ready talent with control but should at least be able to get some nice AA or AAA pitching prospects in return. Now if we wanted to make guys like Gorman, Walker, Winn, Goldy, and Arenado available then obviously the return would be substantial but I think that is unlikely except I could see the possibility of them trading Gorman.
So since we are unlikely to bring back major league ready talent back in trades I doubt we do much but continue to sputter along. Maybe we can pass the Pirates for 4th place but I don’t see us finishing any higher than that. August and September should be about playing some younger guys and seeing what we have for 2024 and hoping that the front office does something bold in the offseason.
Improving the ML roster would be a bandaid with nothing in the upper levels. And if you’re excited about what’s further down, remember all that nothing in the upper levels was in the lower levels not long ago. So think what you want about what’s coming through the pipe.
Not hopeful for the 2nd half because not much will change w/o a revamped pitching staff, and I don’t see that happening until the off-season at the earliest. We can’t get much past 4 innings with our starters, if that, and our relievers can’t hold in close games. It would be an epic comeback if they take even this weak division. Really disappointing considering the offensive talent we have. I’m bracing myself for what they might shed. Gorman, O’Neil, Carlson, Flaherty, Montgomery, Hicks o.k, but please keep Goldy, Arenado, Walker, Donovan, Edman, Helsley. Helsley is the only pitcher I’d put in the do not trade category, but what do I know? 🤪
Have the Cardinals ever come back from 11 1/2 behind, with almost half the season to still play? Probably so. Maybe Brian knows.
They were down, what, 10.5 games in the 2nd wild card in the latter part of August in 2011. Can’t quite recall how that season played out though…..
It’s about how many teams you have to climb over as well as how many games you have to make up. Only being behind and having one or two teams to catch is a whole lot different than have 5-8 teams to catch.
Last year was as much or more about the Brewers collapse as anything we did. We might do well the last 72 games but the whole rest of the Division isn’t going collapse.
The 2011 team was 47-43 after 90 games. A far cry from 38-52.
They were 10.5 behind the Brewers Sep 5. They finished 6 behind the Brewers and grabbed the WC 1 game over the Braves,
Actually I am trying to say the opposite. They were 10.5 behind in Sep 5 behind the Brewers. They never caught them they finished 6 games behind.
Now and then a club will come from way back and win, but it usually takes a combination of that club playing exceptionally well, and the team or teams ahead of it slump.
One of the more amazing charges was the 1951 Giants. I believe they were 13 games back of the Dodgers in August, and caught them at season’s end. They then won the best of three playoff with the memorable Bobby Thomson homer. The Dodgers actually played around .500 down the stretch, while the Giants caught fire.
I think that the Cards will be more exciting to follow if the trades we make will be for younger starting pitching prospects that are MLB ready or near ready. Let them start. Any pitchers in that category will likely be hard to pry away and GMs will be looking for good value in return. There lies the difficulty.
Its folly to believe that our present rotation pieces will be able to turn the team around in the second half. (“We can’t put up this crap indefinitely”.) I think that our guys can sense this and are beginning to show signs of going through the motions. There’s no swagger, little positive body language and optimism has faded away almost all together. To me it seems that they are standing around just expecting the worst to happen in almost every game because leads have evaporated in so many games.
Many player’s values have sunk to the point that it will be hard to make trades for them without giving up too much potential talent at this time. Walker’s bat has big-time potential but his glove is still at the AAA/AA level. Will another team see him as 3Bmen or a 1Bmen just to get his bat in the order?
Call up Winn and see what he has. There would be very little pressure on him right now. The goal should be to think of the ’24 season. The rest of our AAA and AA rosters are nearly barren of any high-ceiling prospects…. maybe at a low point for this century.
Its my opinion that Herrera should be our starting catcher right now but trading Contreras will most probably not happen. Is he going to be a problem child for the term of his contract? He has already put himself in that role. His contract gives him very little value but trading him could alleviate some trouble going forward, You know that Mozeliak doesn’t have it in himself to admit yet another mistake. (We gave up a valuable 2023 2nd rd. pick in acquiring Contreras and that irks me further.)
So many rumors have O’Neill, Flaherty, Montgomery, DeJong, Hicks plus the other usual suspects that will be packing their bags at the deadline. The trick will be to get equal value in return. Get some new younger faces in the dugout that will stir up some promise for next season.
That’s just two cents from a frustrated Cards fan sitting in the last row of the last nose-bleed section.
No question that right now would be an opportune time to promote Winn. With 70 games still remaining that’s a lot of innings at SS and around 200 PA’s to not only get an extended look at his abilities, but also to get him acclimated to the Big Leagues. Why not get a good look at him? In my view, there’s no logical reason not to. DeJong certainly won’t be situated at SS next season and my guess is that Eddie will either be playing with another team or situated at 2B. As bad as this season’s been, it provides a silver lining in the form of a free dice roll, so to speak, on a guy like Winn.
The Dodgers actually played around .500 down the stretch, while the Giants caught fire.
Giants caught fire and Dodgers flamed out, but nobody caught fire and flamed out like Sonny Corleone did listening to that NL pennant clenching game!
No question that right now would be an opportune time to promote Winn. With 70 games still remaining that’s a lot of innings at SS and around 200 PA’s to not only get an extended look at his abilities,
Wynn has had almost 400 PAs in AAA after about the same in AA, so I’d agree it might be a good time to see what he looks like vs ML competition. 70 games is plenty to gage the rediness of both bat and glove.
We will probably have at least one middle infield job opeing pretty soon and I don’t see any reason to call up Palacios or put Motter back on the 40 man. But then again, we’ve seen some doozies this season.
If they trade two or more of the starting middle infielders, which seems quite possible when you consider there are four of them (Edman, Donovan, DeJong, Gorman), then I agree that they should let Winn play and stash Fermin and Palacios in Memphis.
If they only trade away one middle infielder, the current logjam continues, especially if its DeJong who goes. They can’t bring Winn up to sit on the bench. However, there could be a case to sit DeJong for Winn even if he is one who remains after the deadline, though the Cardinals don’t seem to see it that way…
It may also depend on whether they go out and get a center fielder or use Edman out there the rest of the way. They’ve also played O’Neill in center during his Memphis rehab, so who knows?
There are so many moving parts that making firm predictions is impossible.
Yeah, simply because taking a good look at Winn would be right in line with common reason and logic doesn’t at all suggest that’s what they’ll do.
Between Edman, Donovan and Gorman, its Edman they will have to start paying a bit more, as he is arb eligible this winter. Not that he isn’t worth it, but they are cheap.
Of those middle infielders, I hope we keep Donovan and Gorman. DeJong is obviously gone next year, and Edman is not quite the player Donovan is in my opinion.
But what that means is Donovan and Gorman have the highest trade value. And with Winn on the doorstep, if we make a deal for some younger arms one of Donovan and Gorman would probably be sent packing.
Would hate to see either go, especially if I am watching DeJong play the rest of the year. Our management team has not been good lately at dealing the right guys, and that is what is scary about dealing either Gorman or Donovan. Can’t trust we will get equal or better value in return.
Edman is not having a good year his WAR .08 is even lower than DeJong. He put up a 6.3 last year. His average the prior 4 years is 3.75.
I don’t think either Donovan or Gorman would attract near the interest as would Eddie as an impetus for a potentially play-off bound team to offer up what could be considered helpful to the Cardinals. There’s plenty of good teams that would love to have all of the options that he provides as an addition to a roster designed to make a post-season run. Moreover, I’d guess that the Cardinals would be more willing to part with him than either Gorman or Donovan at this juncture and I’ll be highly surprised if he’s wearing a Cardinal uniform after the trade deadline.
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