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Any person can manage when all the players do the job they were hired to do. A good manager is the person who puts the team in the BEST POSITION to win when when everything is not perfect.
I thought our manager did that.
Or are you talking about Madden and his use of Chapman. Or perhaps the recent performance of the Giants under Bochy. Whadya think, NJ and Forsch? Do you think all managers should be let go and every major league team should do a managerial restart?
One impression I have of MM is that he is trying really hard to win. Some managers seem to become resigned to the idea that they don’t have enough talent to win and they lose their inesnsity. Also, I kind of get the idea that MM is not stubbornly doing what he thinks is right all the time. Instead, he’s trying to become better at what he does.
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I thought our manager did that.
There’s the difference, I don’t.
I am not talking about this game. This is a much deeper discussion that has been going on for awhile. No matter what you want to say, I see some repeating moves that I question from Matheny. I truly believe he costs the team a minimum of 4-5 games a year with his decision making.
It’s more than 4-5 games Forsch.
Should’ve been a sweep but I guess a series win is good enough.
See ya at the park tomorrow. Going to all 4 games!
Forsch – all managers probably cost their teams a minimum of 4-5 games a year with their decision making. A Probably more, as 858 says.
Madden was a good manager until he way overused his closer.
Bochy was a good manager until his team went South.
“Good” managers and “Bad” managers shift and change with time, and are many times in the eyes of the beholder.
Even good managers will make decisions that won’t be agreed with. I think Madden is still good. I think Bochy is still good, he just has no pitching and no hitting to work with.
Oh, so Bochy doesn’t have good pitching and good hitting to work with but Matheny does? That’s a riot, Forsch!
The Giants on Offense are younger than only 4 teams on an AB weighted basis and are next to last in runs per game (3.91). The Giants have 1 pitcher who has thrown more than 60 innings with an ERA below 4.30. They have 2 above 5.40 and 2 more above 4.50. They have allowed (4.89) nearly 1/4 run/game more than league average. By contrast, the Cardinals have allowed (4.35) over 1/4 run/game less than league average.
If those stats were Cardinals stats, you would be blaming Cards general management for not bringing in enough talent, and Cardinals field management for being lousy coaches and the manager for not having a clue.
You can believe whatever you want. I have provided my data supporting my position. Most of the time, you have tried to redirect what I am saying without providing many facts. Good luck.
Any person can manage when all the players do the job they were hired to do. A good manager is the person who puts the team in the BEST POSITION to win when when everything is not perfect.
And I believe that our manager does that, Forsch. I could show facts too. Like the number of minor leaguers called up in the past 2 years compared to other teams. Or the number of WAR days of key players lost to injury compared to other teams (especially in our division) over the past several years.
But you would continue to show sustain for Mike Matheny anyway.
So it’s probably just best to agree to disagree.
I have not been in the Matheny is always right crew or the one who criticizes every move, every lineup and every decision. It is amazing the accuracy of 20/20 hindsight. Also how infrequent decisions that turn out ok is noted after the fact.
I though Whitey was a master at evaluating talent and keeping his players fresh, even by rotating them back to AAA if they were not getting action. Also thought he was good strategy wise. His downfall was when Gussie turned the team over to the brewery and Whitey lost infleunce.
Tony was a master at determining the appropriate roles that a winning team needed played and apparently was effective working with management to get the right players to fill those roles. His decisions appeared to be computer driven which always gave him a basis to defend them. He never seemed to play the hot hand.
I admire Schoendienst as a person and player but lesser so as a manager.
I see Matheny’s strength as recognizing talent. Most of the people he brings up from the minors are pretty effective. Exception Mayers but who would give up on a guy with mid-90’s stuff and a good minor league track record. And how many minor leaguers scuffle with their first major league appearances. Like the welcome to the bigs Alcantara got facing his first hitter.
When I see Boston using Kimbrel other than in the 9th or the Cubs use Davis elsewhere or the Dodgers use Jansen elsewhere and it really work I will be more critical of Matheny’s attempt to establish regular 7th, 8th and 9th inning bullpen guys. That does seem to cause some imbalance in workloads. Seems the genius guys tried to broaden the use of key bullpen guys Chapman and Miller in last year’s post season and both wore down pretty badly by the end of the series.
I am concerned about some things.
This season our defense and base running appear to be very careless. A bad record and those kind of problems often lead to a fired manager.I don’t like our approach at the plate. We take a lot of first pitch fastballs right down the middle. Guys like Grichek, DeJong and Diaz need every swing they can get and can’t afford that. We also take a lot of close pitches for called third strikes while other teams seem to foul off a lot of the close ones. Every team swings at too many pitches out of the zone. We seem to do so on third strikes often.
Also we send struggling hitters to Memphis where they seem to be refreshed and come back and do better for awhile. Maybe the Budda is our best hitting coach.
We seem to have far more than our share of pitching injuries. Seems like we have lost at least one key pitcher to Tommy John surgery every year that Matheny has been manager. Bad luck or something wrong with our conditioning program?
In some cases we seem to cater to the players and Mike is known as a players manager. I liked Carpenter much better as a .300 hitter with few strikeouts than the present version. Particularly in the leadoff position. He does not run will and strikes out too much in search of more power. Yet he always gets back to the leadoff position.
The Leake, Cecil and maybe even the Fowler acquisitions have not turned out well. Fowler has had a good second half offensively (still strikes out too much) but in my opinion he does not belong in center field. We seem to have great scouting and if Matheny isn’t heavily involved in front office moves we are missing out on one of his best talents. Unlike the LaRussa years we seem to have too many resources in some roles and not enough in others. That may be on Mo’s head more than Matheny’s.
But if we finish dead last I will still be a big Cardinal fan.
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