Do the Cardinals have the needed “hungry to win” mentality?

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  • #263070
    Shady
    Blocked

    Free

    Oli seems like he’d be enjoyable to play for. But there could be too much of the “win or lose, move on the the next game approach”. IMO

    #263078
    Albert de Morcerf
    Participant

    Free

    I think the problem is they only have one or two good players.

    Masyn Winn is a dynamic 22 year-old who should only get better. The rest are just guys…

    #263079
    ZTR
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    It’s always been more about Jimmy’s and Joes than Xs and Os.

    #263081
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    It’s not about mentality or leadership. There are not any impact players. They all either aged out or fizzled out. There aren’t any impact players coming from the minors and ownership is not going to buy any. That is what it is about.

    #263082
    KeepComingBack
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Gorman and Walker could still fit the bill as impact players. But at this moment, they aren’t progressing toward that.

    #263083
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    KCB, fizzle is less wordy.

    #263085
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I can’t get over the fact that over the month of July Walker got out slugged by Victor Scott. By Victor Scott! And that’s after Walker’s been retooling all year in Memphis. Whatever the clipboard cadets are doing to him is making it worse.

    #263086
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    It is all in what period of stats you choose. Most recently, Scott was on a seven game hitting streak and batting .303. Walker also has a current seven game hitting streak and in his last 10 games, he is 15-for-42 (.357) with over half of his hits going for extra bases (five doubles and three home runs).

    Does that justify being called up, no, not yet. But it is a start in the right direction.

    (Not that this has anything to do with the MLB team’s mentality, which no one can assess from afar.)

    #263089
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Yeah, it’s the same mantra we have talked about before. The two cornerstones – potential future Hall of Famers, are having down years and look to be past their prime. Meanwhile the guys that were supposed to be trending forward, in particular Carlson, Walker and Gorman, have not taken up the slack. Winn looks like he will be the cornerstone, but no one else has the talent that can carry a club.

    Pitching is not real good either. Decent bullpen, aging starters. And lastly, poor evaluations on transactions.

    I think the mentality part is there – the will. But the talent is mediocre.

    #263092
    bccran
    Participant

    The talent is there. It just hasn’t produced for some reason.

    #263093
    KeepComingBack
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Im starting to dislike Arenado. I need to get over that.

    #263097
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Last year’s reason for underachievement was supposedly a lack of veteran leadership, despite the team having two of the top three MVP vote recipients from the year before, both of whom were well into their 30’s. That attempted fix hasn’t worked.

    The new narrative with Pham coming is they need guys who play with an “edge”. But expecting Pham to save the season is going to end in disappointment. In very early returns, the Cards with Pham are 2-3, though without him, they’d be 1-4. So there’s that.

    Like others have wondered, maybe it is the talent, not the desire.

    #263098
    Albert de Morcerf
    Participant

    Free

    Definitely the talent.

    Goldy & Nado are on a sharp decline. Walker & Gorman aren’t (yet?) what we thought they’d be. Contreras, Burly, Noot, Hurdy Gurdy are nice players but that’s about it. None are All Star caliber or MVP candidates.

    It’s Winn. He has exceeded expectations! Let’s hope he keeps progressing.

    #263099
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I’ll remind everyone that Gorman looked good his first full year. So did Walker. Do did Carlson. So did DeJong.

    So let’s look at our latest guy looking good his first full year and fit him for a red jacket? You guys can pile on that bandwagon. If the wheels aren’t getting wobbly by the end of next year. We can talk.

    #263100
    RBK
    Participant

    “The ‘Hungry to Win’ Mentality”??? Sounds like a really bad motivational/self-help book.

    When the FO played the “veteran leadership” card in the off-season, it was telling: it’s always easier and more convenient to place the blame on something you can actually fix, rather than pinpoint the much harder and relevant problem–lack of talent and depth–that is far more difficult to resolve (and far more damning of management’s performance).

    #263102
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Another guy who looked good early on was Piscotty, and that shortstop we had around that same time – can’t think of his name. Both guys regressed to mediocrity and were traded, with neither one doing much.

    It is a disturbing trend how we have guys who come up and look like they are settling in for a nice career, but then don’t progress. Flaherty was sort of that way as well. Mikolas had that bang up year in ‘18, then injuries and maybe just being fortunate early has brought his career back to earth.

    After 2021 I championed O’Neill as an MVP candidate heading in to 2022, and he fizzled, although he is doing well in Beantown this year.

    #263103
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Another guy who looked good early on was Piscotty, and that shortstop we had around that same time – can’t think of his name. Both guys regressed to mediocrity and were traded, with neither one doing much.

    Aledmys Diaz? Amazingly, he is still playing, or was as of a couple weeks ago. He had a nice role with Toronto and then Houston after the trade, but wasn’t much more than a bench guy otherwise.

    #263108
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I think what this team lacks is the impact players that bb mentioned earlier. This team doesn’t have a Chris Carpenter or a Mark McGwire, Jim Edmunds, Albert Pujols, Scot Rolen, or even a young and healthy Adam Wainwright or Edgar Renteria. Both Arenado and Goldschmidt, like Manny Machado and Kris Bryant, seem to be over the hill in their early thirties for reasons unknown. This team needs a couple of impact players to give the team the confidence it needs to feel like a winner. It looked like Walker was going to be that kind of player, but not any more. Eventually Winn, Burleson, Wetherholt, Hence, Matthews could be impact guys, but none of them are there yet. Right now, there’s only one impact player on the whole team and he’s a reliever. I think we can forget about free agents solving the problem because of all the empty seats we are seeing at every game. Basically, the St. Louis Cardinals are now in the same boat as almost every other small market team, and the front office is going to have to work through it. IMO, if the fans would stop worrying about ‘dominating’ and just enjoy the game for what it is, and if ownership would stop issuing insane contracts to players, the whole of the game would be a better experience for everybody.

    #263112
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    We have 100mil in 7 contracts that has rewarded us with 0.7 BRwar, total, to date.
    It’s going to take some time to wear Arenado, Mikolas and Matz salaries off the ledger.
    Goldy is likely gone. Edman and GG were sunk costs that have been removed. Who is Middleton?😡 No help there.

    #263120
    Shady
    Blocked

    Free

    With the Cardinals, is it lack of talent or more of lack of production? There’s a lot of just average production going on. Especially, considering some salaries. The Cardinals need more “bang for their buck” out of some.

    #263121
    RBK
    Participant

    Nah, they just need a booster injection of that “‘hungry to win’ mentality” . . .

    #263122
    ZTR
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Maybe they just need to hire Tony Robbins to come in and give the team a pep talk?

    #263123
    RBK
    Participant

    Or Matt Foley . . .

    Matt Foley

    “You gents better win some games and snag a wild card, or you’ll be livin’ in a van . . . down by the river!!!”

    #263126
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    stlcartdsfan2 put together a somewhat realistic analysis of the Card’s future players. Mostly he tells it like it is but a little confused about a few points. If you are a worrisome sort…. read with caution.

    https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2024/8/5/24213509/the-state-of-each-position

    #263140
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The lack of a “hunger to win” mentality could also apply to the people upstairs instead of just those on the field. These underperforming players didn’t sign themselves to contracts.

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