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The Cardinals were a powerhouse when they had MV3 –
Pujols, Edmonds, and Rolen.Don’t they have the same potential with Goldy, Arenado, and Walker? I don’t want to “over hype” Walker, but isn’t the potential there? And isn’t there also the potential to have a better supporting cast in 2023?
In 2006, it was Yadi (hit .216), Miles, Eckstein, Taguchi,
Encarnacion with a bench of Spiezio, Duncan, Luna, Rodriguez, Belliard, Bennett.In 2023 it will be Contreras, Edman, O’Neill, Donovan, Gorman, Carlson, Nootbaar, Yepez, Burleson, and Gomez.
Which group would you rather have? Which has the most potential?
Why would they a very good team if, short of a deal before the season starts, they have the same offense as last year?
Because Mo and the gang are counting on resurgent years from Carlson and O’Neill. If that happens, the skys the limit. If it doesn’t happen, we might miss the playoffs.
r/Esteemed Rat
Yeah, because no one ever gets any better. They all only get worse every single year, right, Nate?
Rats, they won the division in 2022 handily even though O’Neill and Carlson had down years. The Cards are division favorites again, as they should be.
I get they need a lot of things to go right to become a true World Series contender, but winning the Central is a fairly low bar because the division is weak. But winning the division is not enough. They are going to need help or otherwise, they will again be the third best division winner and have to again play the two-game Wild Card series instead of getting a bye into a full-length playoff series. The edge for being third best division winner over being a Wild Card is two home games instead of two away games. It is something but not much.
They should be gunning to have the best record in the NL, but their sights are not set that high. Bill DeWitt Jr. made that clear this weekend. The strategy is to get in and hope for the best.
On the MV3, they have candidates for no. 3, but it remains to be seen if any of them step forward in 2023. Of course, this assumes the MV2 stay healthy and productive as they play deeper into their 30s.
Replacing Yadi/Knizner/Romines with Contreras is as much of an offensive upgrade as you can get out of one lineup slot.
Contreras is without a doubt a substantial upgrade to the lineup. However, there’s the genuine possibility that the upgrade will be at least mitigated and at most entirely evened out with the absence of Albert Pujols.
I wouldn’t have thought so coming into last season, but replacing Albert’s DH production won’t be easy. It will probably have to be a combination of guys.
Update: I was typing this the same time as 1tough. I do think that 2023 at those two positions combined should be an upgrade over 2022, primarily because Yadi’s OPS was so bad. It was like playing DeJong every day. But how much better it gets in 2023 will depend on the young guys.
2022
Yadi .535
Pujols .8952023
Contreras .815 in 2022
Yepez/Burleson/Gorman/etc… ???And in addition to the .895 OPS, almost every solitary HR or hit that Pujols contributed in ’22 was one that either changed the entire complexion of the contest or placed the game in the W column. It won’t be at all easy to replace one of the greatest sluggers in the history of the game.
There’s a difference here.
Many of us have been following the Cardinals for a long time. We look at who’s coming up through the system that we can be excited about. For years I watched players like Nick Plummer, Bryce Denton, Scott Hurst, Nick Dunn, Conner Capel, Justin Toerner, and Chase Pinder coming through the system and none created much excitement. They didn’t have a lot of power, didn’t display a whole lot of speed, and their slash lines were very pedestrian. I was, however, intrigued by several like Randy Arozarena and Adolis Garcia. Show me a high batting average/OBP and I get excited. Show me a slew of home runs and I get excited. Show me some flat out speed and I get excited.
Look at some of the recent trades and you can see where the Cardinals are headed. They traded away Arozarena. They gave away Garcia. They traded away Alcantara and Gallen. Mo made a very telling statement at that time. He said they were going to have to address internally how they assess talent in the system.
Yes, they went out to get proven All Stars in Goldy and Arenado. But they’re going to give talented prospects a little more time to see what they have. Guys who have special talent. Gorman, a healthy Carlson, a healthy O’Neill, Nootbaar, Yepez, Burleson, Walker, Gomez, Winn, Hence, and even Antico are guys that they aren’t going to trade or give up on too early. If it takes a little more time, then so be it.
And as Brian pointed out, they’re going to give injured players time to get healthy and see what they really have with them.
I really can’t remember when they’ve had so many prospects with special talents on the horizon. Any that to me is what’s exciting and special about the organization right now.
How many total HR’s and RBI’s were generated from the DH slot in ’22? Pujols collected only 250 PA’s as a DH last season.
I think the cardinals are getting back to their roots. Drafting pitching then trading (in theory) for a competitive advantage when they need a bat. The result is less potential big bat names obviously in our system to look forward to (and already crown someone as a roy/mvp candidate) but will probably lead to a more well balanced team in the years to come.
The Cardinals M.O. for years, was to draft for pitching, and trade it to fill in for position players as needed. Now the situation seems to be a bit reversed. There are some really good position players in the system, that they want to take a chance and see how they do. And at the same time hold onto some of the top pitchers like Graceffo, McGreevey, Hjerpe, Mautz, Hence, etc.
I agree bccran- however would you rather have our current team + our top 3 hitting prospects or our current team with 2 or 3 guys in AAA that could be current back end starters for a third of the league. Id take the latter. No right or wrong answer there.
I also think walker has a very high floor – probably one that we haven’t seen since idk jd drew? How were ppl talking about brett wallace a few years ago? Nothing like walker but they definitely had him penciled in as a starter. Didnt turn out too well. Pitching more reliable and coveted.
The Cardinals have Matz, Hudson, Pallante, Liberatore, Woodford, Thompson, Thomas, Hansen, Graceffo, McGreevey, Paniagua, Hjerpe, Mautz, Hence, etc. as possible starters looking forward. That’s pretty deep. Doesn’t include possible extensions for Mikolas and Montgomery.
Personally, the last time I thought the Cards had a hitting prospect in the vicinity of Walker’s potential was Oscar Taveras.
That’s a very good comparison. I’m not sure he had the same baseball smarts and work ethic as Walker, though.
If Walker gets to the MV3 status, and is the youngest of the three, which he would likely be, I will call them “Junior Walker and the All Stars.” What does it take? 😀
When have we had a whole group of guys like Goldy, Nado, O’Neill, Carlson, Nootbaar, Contreras, Yepez, Burleson,
Walker, and Gomez. All very capable of 20+ home runs.Forgot Gorman.
Goldy
Arenado
Cabrera
Gorman
O’Neill
Carlson
Nootbaar
Yepez
Burleson
Walker
GomezSeriously. Have we ever had a larger group of high ceiling players with that kind of power?
This is a thread about MV3 type hitters, but I’ll answer your question, ChiTown”. The Cardinals didn’t have a pitcher with an “Ace” type performance in 2011.
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