Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2019

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This topic contains 1,240 replies, has 42 voices, and was last updated by Avatar thejager 1 hour, 1 minute ago.

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  • #113764
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    CardsFanInChiTown
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    GScott, unfortunately Bernie isn’t to far off, and he would know as well as any how they operate.

    If the Cardinals are eating half of Fowler’s and Carp’s contracts, I would have to believe they could find a partner. As far as the NTC’s, knowing that you’re going to be coming off the bench has to be motivation to be willing to allow it to certain teams.

    Half of those two plus JMart would clear almost $20M that they could spend on a useful piece or two.

    #113829
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    gscottar
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    If the Cardinals would like to have a reasonably cheap stop gap LF who hits LH then there are many options:

    Kole Calhoun
    Corey Dickerson
    Alex Gordon
    David Peralta

    All are free agents except for Peralta.

    #113833
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    thejager
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    A David Peralta + Robbie Ray trade might be an interesting route to explore

    both are only controllable through 2020 so they can’t ask CRAZY returns…also ARZ i think must be pretty pleased with what STL and their farm has given them so far Kelly, Weaver both solid and Gallen now (via Marlins)

    I would imagine they would be open to talking with us and probably have a good idea about what they like from our organization in prospects

    also it makes me wonder about moving Fowler in a deal like that(as i think ARZ might be a legitimate place Fowler would take a trade to being close to his home in LV especially since he already has a WS ring

    now i know Tomas seems a lost cause for most, but he hit .300 last year at AAA with 29 HRs, played 1b and LF. Now i can’t imagine he is great in the OF, and he is owed like 20m for the next year (and then he actually is arb eligible for one more year)…but perhaps we could swap him and Fowler

    Fowler is owed 33 million over the next 2yrs
    Tomas 20m for 2020

    Maybe we take on Tomas for 2020 and eat 6.5m per year of Fowler

    They are left paying what they had planned to pay for Tomas this year but spread out over 2 years while getting a player that they probably have more room for (better OF)

    We also ask for Ray and Peralta in the deal….but also add other pieces…perhaps ONeill + Poncedeleon + Capel

    We arent on the line for Ray Tomas or Peralta or Fowler after 2020 allowing us either to target whomever we like

    Then move JMart to an AL team after to free up a spot on the bench for Tomas (but if he could hack LF maybe he slots in there a bit ina pseudo JMart role)
    then look at a Moustakas 3yr deal
    Waino and Wieters back

    Jack, Hud, Mik, Ray, Waino…..Ponce
    CMart, Miller, BRebb, Gallegos, Helsley, Webb, Junior, Genesis
    Wong, Peralta, Goldy, Moose, DeJong, Yadi, Thomas, Bader
    Randy, Wieters, Carp, Munoz, Tomas

    As much as i am not a fan of Fowler and Carp’s money i am more bothered that is still TWO more years of it, which for me stagnates the teams flexibility to adjust based off of what happens each year

    Which is why i’d rather pay more in 2020 just to be free of most of the obligation in 2021

    yes, Tomas is no real answer and may be less valuable that JMart, but the change in ability seems marginal enough (especially considering that we should be able to get a solid return from a trade of him) to warrant the swapping, especially given the financial help for 2021

    #113834
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    thejager
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    after that deal…i’d also consider calling up KC to pry Merrifield from them…

    now this is more risky….BUT

    JMart + Gant + Woodford + Bader + Genesis + Montero
    for
    Merrifield + Soler

    I threw it at the trade simulator and it says we are overpaying a bit, which is what i suspect it would take

    Merrifield slots into CF, Soler into RF, Peralta into LF

    Merrifield is at worst a good leadoff man, at best an MVP-lite guy…and cheap and controlled
    Soler is a masher, but cheap and is arb eligible in 2021

    I’d be fine with a lineup that looked like:

    Whit, Peralta, Goldy, Soler, Moose, DeJong, Yadi, Wong

    corrects for some guys who hit for high AVG at the top…some lefty power in Moose, and righty power in SOler who turned a corner it seems last year (plus i think he might like to face the Cubs every year and stick it to them for giving up on him)

    #113835
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    thejager
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    ill stop for a while… (though i have been thinking about a deal with the A’s too)

    #113841
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    Minuteman3
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    A thread with 1180 replies is one that certainly draws in the masses and, as I said earlier, I do get a lot of laughs out of it. But I suggest that it be renamed to something more descriptive such as “The Grass Is Always Greener…..” …lol

    #113843
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
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    A thread with 1180 replies is one that certainly draws in the masses and, as I said earlier, I do get a lot of laughs out of it. But I suggest that it be renamed to something more descriptive such as “The Grass Is Always Greener…..” …lol

    What makes it funny? People like to talk about ideas of how to make the team better. Most all of them won’t happen, but it’s something to talk about during the down time of the year.

    #113845
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    Minuteman3
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    <stlc25 wrote: What makes it funny?>

    Well if I have to say what makes it funny to me it obviously won’t be funny to you. But to me it is like my saying “Well when I hit the lottery I am going to buy this and that.” Yet I don’t even have a ticket on the lottery. No use going into detail so I’ll let it slide and uncheck myself from receiving replies to the thread. Probably better for my health anyway.

    #113847
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    thejager
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    I thought you were already going to do that Minute…at least you said you were unchecking yourself ahiel before…sure seems like you are seeking all of this out, that which you find to be worthless…..guess it isnt…

    but whatever

    it isn’t grass is always greener…though not stagnating on ONE idea is a part of itIMO…to a lot of people…it is fun and interesting to talk through ways we might be able to improve the club in a safe environment that isnt full of people trying to attack or stop discussion just because they dont want to partake…

    not all the ideas are 100% possible, but they often have a grain of truth in them enough that it might make someone think of a possibility they hadnt thought of….or instead of wallowing in waiting for moves to happen, see if you can come up with something positive…or better than what actually happens (in our own opinions)

    I personally enjoy trying out different ideas and in different scenarios…sometimes instigated upon others thoughts, or sometimes other baseball resources, and most often on my own whims

    There is NOTHING funny about making fun of other people’s thoughts and interests…unless you just want to be a bully that is…but to me that is the funniest thing in the world…someone who only attacks what they dont understand, agree with or want to see…someone so weak willed and minded that their only way to deal with anyone else is so make fun, laugh, or run away from that which they don’t like…THAT to me is what is funny

    #113848
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    mudville
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    It’s possible that MO sees one of Jag’s trade ideas, puts it in an email, and hits ‘send’, just to see if he gets a nibble that might start a conversation. You never know.

    #113849
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    thejager
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    ok…so during one of the STLTOday chats….there was a rumor that the A’s might be willing to listen on Chapman…not sure where it came from but alas…

    probably a sell high thing, BUT maybe that is a good tactic from them as they have to deal with the Stros in that division and maybe selling high on Chapman to get multiple pieces that will help them compete a little farther down the road…

    not likely…but enough for me to try an idea out…i put it in the chat…but i’ll put it (or something similar here)

    so…you are buying a guy young (25) but in his prime already, cheap and controllable, belted out 35+ HRs, is a GG/platinum level defender at 3b, only knock on him is a low AVG…but not THAT low (.250 is the new .275 nowadays it seems)…he isnt super fast either but so what …

    so that is SUPER high value….which means not only do you have to match value…but you also probably have to add more to pry him away

    Having said that…he is cornerstone type of player

    to me he is Scott rolen 2.0…which is a great thing to have…and i think you go at adeal for him in a similar way you went after Rolen…excpt more value going out…though i would make it a bit more

    basically the Rolen deal was:
    Rolen for Polanco + Bud Smith + Timlin

    so for me:

    Chapman + (Jorge Mateo)
    for

    Polanco = Gorman (don’t need him if you have Chapman at his age)
    Smith = Hudson (Smith had just come off of what we all thought was a breakout year)
    Timlin = Gant (veteran reliever…though in Gant’s case could be a 5 starter or opener)
    Adolis Garcia

    Now I think the value is ab it high on the Cardinals side SO I would like to grab a speedster 2b/SS Mateo to better suit our backup SS needs and protect for life after Wong and in case Edman comes back to earth… but to get that I think you gotta add a bit more, so i went with Ad Garcia…whose power is for real and reall probably deserved a callup this year despite his striking out a lot…the A’s have had a lot of success with our castoffs and OFers (Piscotty and Martini)…though i woudl get it if we’d have to maybe offer Arozarena…i woulndt have Carlson, Thomas on the list…and i don’t think they’d want ABder as they already have a better version of him in Laureano…but Randy, AdGarcia,Capel,Williams are all right there for them…i would consider ONeill too…if that made the deal happen…

    Chapman doesn’t help with needing a leadoff man, but it does give us a thumper and another GG defender, AND he woudl be locked in for many years and provide a nice new coree player

    He would be expensive and rightfully so…

    and perhaps my proposal is STILL too light…

    but as long as you hold onto Knizner, Carlson, Jack, Hererra I think we could add in just about any other prospect/s to make it happen….losing Gorman is no big deal…Hudson COULD be…but if yo uare entertaining an addition of al efty to the rotation and Waino back and CMArt in the rotation…there is room to sell high on Hudson

    It isn’t exactly like the Rolen deal…BUT with the way the Rolen deal turned out…for there to be a guy out there that might offer the same kind of return it woudl be foolish to not try to duplicate a deal like that if you can.

    #113851
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    Cardinals27
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    I have seen varying salaries posted for Carpenter and Fowler, so I went to Spotrac, which is my source for salaries. Here they are:

    Carpenter is signed for 3 more years, and owed 55.5 million.
    Fowler has a contract with the Cardinal for 2 more years (It seems like forever) for a total of $33 million.

    Another tidbit about the Red Sox is that they have $130 mill tied up in 5 players for 2020.

    #113854
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    Cardinals27
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    JMart + Gant + Woodford + Bader + Genesis + Montero
    for
    Merrifield + Soler

    Definitely more risky Jager. Way too much to give up. I would like to see what Woodford, Cabrera, and Montero do in 2020. Perhaps Woodford, and maybe Adolis Garcia.

    #113860
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    GameCard
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    Does Dexter Fowler have any trade value? He has a 1.7 WAR…would any team want him even if we paid over his salary.

    #113880
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    mspaid
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    Jager:

    You’ve done it again. I like the Chapman proposal. But after they make it they can’t STOP. Then you go out and get a top notch outfielder and a top notch starter (Not Cole) and a top notch closer. Then you have my attention. Then they are finally SERIOUS about winning the World Series. Now, Mo, you have your extension…let’s see you earn it.

    #113902
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    gscottar
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    Carpenter is signed for 3 more years, and owed 55.5 million.
    Fowler has a contract with the Cardinal for 2 more years (It seems like forever) for a total of $33 million.

    Not exactly correct on Carpenter.

    2020: $18.5M
    2021: $18.5M
    2022: Option of $18.5M with a $2M buyout. The option becomes automatic if he has 1100 plate appearances in 2020 and 2021 combined, including 550 PA in 2021.

    So in essence he is owed $39M with the possibility of more if the third year vests.

    https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/national-league-central/st-louis-cardinals/

    • This reply was modified 6 days, 4 hours ago by Avatar gscottar.
    #113912
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    Cardinals27
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    THanks STL25, I missed the vesting option. That’s better news IMO, as unless Carp reverts back to 2018, he won’t get to 1100 PA’s. And if he does have a better 2020 the lineup is better.

    #113913
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    gscottar
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    THanks STL25, I missed the vesting option. That’s better news IMO, as unless Carp reverts back to 2018, he won’t get to 1100 PA’s. And if he does have a better 2020 the lineup is better.

    Well I am not stl25 but you are welcome. :o)

    #113915
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
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    Well I am not stl25 but you are welcome. :o)

    I did think that was one of your better posts in a while, so I could see the mix up. 😂

    #113923
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    thejager
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    Nate,

    Thanks for the comment on the Chapman idea…

    I get that an good OF, SP, and Closer would be perfect….but i don’t really think that would be necessary

    -i dont think we need a closer, if anything we have a pretty healthy bullpen with several guys who can step into that role before Hicks comes back…who is an elite closer

    -i do think an OFer and an SP are important, though i think only one could be had via FA, the other via trade

    – a good SP…(not Cole)…well i don’t think we need upper echelon…but i do think we need a rotation piece, but i am nto against not getting a lefty. If i did deal Hudson, I’d look for a bit more quality than a Miley or Wood… but im not approaching Stras or Ryu or wheeler or Bumgarner either in FA….I’d look at Keuchel on a short deal 2yrs max, maybe Hamels on a 1yr deal (he reported he might take that)….otherwise i’d look hard at Teheran…he is still young and has a little upside…he keeps his ERA down and is durable. Perhaps a 3yr deal for reasonable money could be done…worth a shot

    -as for the OFer…this is where i cue the trade route with KC again…Merrifield is what we need, leadoff, speed, some power, high AVG, SB threat, and versatile to move around to fit if need be. you gotta pay for him (kinda like Chapman, but you are getting quality back in a spot and for use that we need)…perhaps Herrera would be an enticing piece for KC as PErez has been injured a lot lately, and perhaps they will want to move on from him after 2021 when his contract runs out…Herrera plus some other pieces, probably an OFer and a starter too….for the OFer i think you go with BAder…who might need a fresh start, and Matheny probably knows him well…and a close-ish starter in Oviedo or Seijas….i’d consider Woodford potentially too……so Bader + Herrera + Oviedo…or Woodford instead of Oviedo + GEnesis…and they add in Soler (yes this is a different type of deal for those two than i put up above…as this one leverages a lot of value in Hererra)

    Chapman -power, defense
    Merrifield- leadoff, defense, versatility, AVG, SB
    Teheran- dependable 4-5 with upside and youth
    Soler- power, and solid defense

    would solve for the deficiencies in the team IMO….leadoff, stability in the 4 or 5, no lapse in power
    would cost a lot in trades…not as much in salary though

    main guys we would lose:
    Gorman (replaced with Chapman)
    Hudson + Wacha + Waino (replaced with Teheran + Waino + CMart)
    Herrera (tough loss, have to lean on Knizner as the future catcher…but we do have some other nice catching prospects too)…though we would also snag MAtero, so another upside prospect
    ONeill, Randy/AdGarcia, Bader (i am just assuming they are the most valuable)…replaced with Merrifield, Soler, Carlson, Thomas
    Gant (replace with Ponce, Gomber)
    Woodford (Ponce and Rondon and Gomber)

    we still retain Carlson and Rondon and Thompson and a few others as top prospects to still plan for, but with the additions we don’t need to lean on them

    Whit, Wong, Goldy Chapman, Soler, DeJong, Yadi, Thomas
    Carp, Knizner, Munoz, Edman, Fowler (until Carlson is up)
    Jack, Mik, CMart, Teheran, Waino
    Hicks, Miller, Gallegos, Brebbia, Genesis, Helsley, Junior, Webb

    Solid team, offensive powerhouse with sparks and great defense, solid if unspectacular rotation, deep bullpen, talented bench

    It isnt perfect, and it wont happen but looking at:

    2 complicated but do-able big trades
    1 outside organization FA (who isnt a top tier)
    1 internal FA

    Sounds like an offseason plan that is do-able and not impossible in terms of time

    #113936
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    CardsFanInChiTown
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    Is anyone else annoyed with how cheap Dewitt is? Anyone who argues that they are maxed out and can’t add a big contract and several extra pieces be close to the LT line has drank the DeWitt Kool-Aid for too long that they can’t, they are poor, they are struggling…. etc. It’s not can’t, it’s won’t/greed! Frustrating is not a strong enough word to say the least.

    1) 3.4M through the gates
    2) Very good local TV deal w high ratings
    3) BP Village Revenue
    4) MLB revenue and he’s never dreamed of paying the tax

    #113937
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    GameCard
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    He is not cheap.

    #113939
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    GameCard
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    We are currently 9th in team payroll and all the teams above us have a much larger market.
    https://www.usatoday.com/sports/mlb/salaries/2019/team/all/

    #113942
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    forsch31
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    Jager, which of the following would you choose as an alternative to Merrifield:

    Player A – .303/.358/.451/.809 with 15 HRs and 33 SBs
    Player B – .308/.395/.501/.895 with 14 HRs and 22 SBs

    Both are good OFs with the ability to leadoff. One would be a high cost to acquire and the other would be relatively cheap to acquire due to their relative inexperience.

    #113947
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    CardsFanInChiTown
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    GameCard drank the Koolaid folks, beware! They have been in the top three profitable teams the past 5 years…. please explain how spending a little more and not being cheap is not infuriating?

    I’m completely ignoring your idiotic “he is not cheap” comment.

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