Cardinals’ Off-season Needs

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  • #148615
    Avatargscottar
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    Would someone like Howie Kendrick be of interest? He should be obtainable on a cheapish one year deal. Last year he mostly played 1B and DH. Can he still play 3B or 2B?

    #148617
    Avatarbccran
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    25 – In one of your posts, you said that we lost Gallen, Alcantara, Sierra, and Arozarena because of getting Ozuna. How do you figure Arozarena? Thanks.

    #148618
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    I’ll throw Daniel Robertson in the Kendrick conversation, if Robertson is non-tendered today by SFG.

    #148619
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    JMO, but with DeWitt’s comment purposely vague, I did not interpret it as a positive, but instead to leave open how deep the cuts may go. (I would love to be proven wrong, but I am not counting on it…)

    #148622
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    25 – In one of your posts, you said that we lost Gallen, Alcantara, Sierra, and Arozarena because of getting Ozuna. How do you figure Arozarena? Thanks.

    Ozuna being here blocked Arozarena’s avenue for playing time. Arozarena would have likely been up earlier in 2019 had Ozuna been on another team, giving him the shot to show the Cards what he was. He likely would have not been traded if he had half a season of excellent numbers in St Louis.

    #148626
    AvatarNigel T
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    The Cardinals knew who Randy was and is better than anyone; they studied and interacted with him for years. He is an above-average hitter who couldn’t handle second base or center field, and he has ALWAYS been prone to impressive hot streaks.

    #148631
    Avatargscottar
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    JMO, but with DeWitt’s comment purposely vague, I did not interpret it as a positive, but instead to leave open how deep the cuts may go. (I would love to be proven wrong, but I am not counting on it…)

    That might be the case or maybe DeWitt was just allowing for the fact that the revenue projections might look better in a couple of months. He did say there was room to sign a free agent, but he very well could have been referring to Yadi and/or Waino.

    #148634
    Avatarbccran
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    I see no correlation between Ozuna and Arozarena. Randy was well know and well respected within the Cardinal organization. It’s just that Mo, et al wrongly rated him below O’Neill, Bader, and Thomas at the time of the trade.

    #148636
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I see a lot of correlation there. But it’s ok if you don’t. The point remains that Ozuna cost significant talent for not much return. The Cards rotation this year could be Flaherty, Gallen, Alcantara, Mikolas and Waino. Or they could have used Carlos or others to upgrade the farm system or the MLB product earlier, with these guys sitting ready to perform. It was not a good deal for St Louis. Sometimes you just get burned.

    #148642
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    No wonder he struggled in 2020…he had a 101 year layoff!

    Good one stl25. Had a good laugh.

    #148643
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    The point remains that Ozuna cost significant talent for not much return. The Cards rotation this year could be Flaherty, Gallen, Alcantara, Mikolas and Waino. Or they could have used

    On the day of the Ozuna trade I knew the Cards (Mozeliak) screwed up again. Some kind of Golden Glover we got. Danny Glover would have been better.

    #148644
    Avatarmspaid
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    The Rays knew that Randy A was and is vastly more talnted that O’neill , Bader or Thomas. As did the Cardinals. They also knew the Cardinals had an obsession with Libetore (sp). So they no doubt said it would have to be Randy A or no deal. The Cardinals have their coveted superstar so let’s see how good he is or isn’t.

    #148647
    Avatarbccran
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    mspaid – Mo said in his last virtual press conference that
    there were other outfielders that he could have included in the Liberatore trade besides Arozarena, and that as a result, the Cards are re-evaluating how they assess system talent.

    #148651
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    gscottar said:

    That might be the case or maybe DeWitt was just allowing for the fact that the revenue projections might look better in a couple of months. He did say there was room to sign a free agent, but he very well could have been referring to Yadi and/or Waino.

    That is what made reading that article so frustrating. None of the many clarification questions were apparently asked.

    I will say that if I am trying to keep interest high in my team during a period in which the virus is still running rampant, I am going to try to be as vaguely positive as I can get away with. Mo had already drawn the assignment to deliver the bad “payroll will be down” news, so Bill could be the good cop.

    At this point, anything is possible, but personally, I am going with the most realistic scenario until there is a clear reason to be optimistic about more big spending any time soon…

    P.S. The Cardinals just issued this advisory…

    “The traditional December ticket sales launch of All-Inclusive tickets and Holiday Packs will be delayed this year.”

    #148656
    Avatarmudville
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    I don’t see how anyone can criticize the Ozuna trade knowing that the Cardinals acquired an outfielder coming off a year that he hit 37 HR’s and OPS’d .924 plus won a GG, presumably, for being the best defensive left fielder in the National League.

    #148660
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Maikel Franco is expected to be non-tendered. He started 51 games at 3B for the KCR and posted a 109 ops+. He was signed last winter for 2.95mil. Even handedness splits over his career and did have a sss .830 vs LHP’s last season.

    #148661
    Avatarbccran
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    Mudville – only Monday morning quarterbacks can criticize that trade.

    The Cardinals have made some of the biggest trades in MLB over the past several years – getting Ozuna, Goldschmidt, etc. I wouldn’t rule out a significant trade this off season.

    #148699
    Avatarmspaid
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    bccean:

    1. Mo could have been creating a scenario where he wasn’t duped.
    2. If their scouts are that stupid then they need to fire them all.
    3. Ozuna was NOT a big trade.
    4. I would rule out a significance trade this winter.

    #148706
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    David Dahl has a projected .795 OPS next year on BRef, Eddie Rosario a .788 and Joc Pederson a .805. Other free agent OFers of note are Hunter Renfroe at .763, George Springer at .848 and Kyle Schwarber at .810.

    Our OFers:

    Thomas .751
    Bader .744
    O’Neill .724
    Carlson .724
    Fowler .700

    #148713
    Avatarbccran
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    mspaid –

    1.) If Ozuna wasn’t a big trade, I don’t know what is. I believe most posters would agree with that.

    2.) Why would you rule out a big trade this Winter? Trading pitching for hitting is the best way to improve this offense. Maybe a pre arbitration or arbitration hitter.

    #148727
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Curt Casali was non-tendered. Career 95 ops+ in 951 PA’s. Was estimated at 1.8mil as an arb2.

    #148736
    Avatarmspaid
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    Bccran:

    Two things on Ozuna: 1. he was just an afterthought when Stanton turned down St. Louis and 2. Ozuna was a complete bust. Now, that is hindsight and may not be fair but results do count and he flopped. Hardly, a big trade. Goldschmidt was a big trade, Rolen was a big trade, Edmunds was a big trade…Ozuna was a swing and a miss.

    Why would they make a big deal (IF IT COST THEM MILLIONS). Now, if they can make a trade that zeroes out then okay. But they’re not going to add to the payroll with no gate receipts.

    #148740
    thejagerthejager
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    i like Casali as a quality FA backups catcher

    #148741
    Avatarbccran
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    mspaid –

    1.) Ozuna was not a complete bust at all. 52 home runs and 177 RBI in 278 games over 2 years is far from a bust. In 2019 he was second on the team in RBI (in only 130 games), third on the team in HRs (29), and one of only two starters that had as least an .800 OPS.

    2.) A trade sure can be made if you’re trading for a pre-arbitration player or someone in the 1st or 2nd year of arbitration. Or for a highly rated prospect who is now major league ready.

    #148742
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    mspaid wrote:

    Two things on Ozuna: 1. he was just an afterthought when Stanton turned down St. Louis and 2. Ozuna was a complete bust. Now, that is hindsight and may not be fair but results do count and he flopped.

    I dont believe you can say that Ozuna was a bust and that he flopped. He hit .280 with 23 homeruns and 88 rbi’s his first year. Not great but pretty good. His 2nd year he missed about a month with the hand injury but still ended up with 29 homeruns and 89 rbi’s. Granted his .241 average that year wasnt very good. If he would have not been injured he might have hit 35 homeruns with 100+ rbi’s.

    However, I do agree with your basic thought about Ozuna, that he wasnt as good as hoped for. And so many people, including myself, didnt expect him to repeat his 2017 numbers he put up with Florida. But in 2020 he basically put up those same numbers so we all got fooled.

    r/Esteemed Rat

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