Agreement on salaries/service time/contracts

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  • #129500
    Avatargscottar
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    #129507
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    #129514
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    #129516
    Avatarmudville
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    I don’t think MLB should show their financial documents to the players’ union if they don’t want to. They are entitled to that privacy. If the players demand that as a condition to getting started, then forget it. Just skip the season. Then, after the 2021 season, let there be a strike to find out who is really in charge. It will either be the owners and their staff, or the union and its staff.

    It’s okay with me if the baseball industry is allowed to crash and burn. Let’s see what people can bring up out of the ashes. Hopefully, it will be a system that isn’t constantly throwing around obscene amounts of money, or a system of rich teams in big markets and relatively poor teams in small markets, or a system that requires a family of four to spend a couple of hundred bucks to see one baseball game.

    #129528
    Avatargscottar
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    #129529
    Avatarmudville
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    Here are a couple statements from the LA Times article linked above:

    ‘Baseball attracted about 68.5 million fans in 2019 after drawing nearly 80 million a dozen years earlier.’

    ‘the average age of baseball viewers is 57, with only 7% of viewers under 18.’

    This means that the value of MLB franchises is on its way to tanking, so it really doesn’t matter if there is a long strike, or not. The owners have gotten themselves caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. If there’s any chance at all of saving the value of an MLB franchise, something drastic is going to have to happen.

    I’d say this, also. If any player, including our own Jack Flaherty, is offered a guaranteed contract that will guarantee him security for life, he’d better take it because the days of the megacontract may be coming to a close. I can’t see that surviving an MLB tank and rebuild.

    #129535
    AvatarBob Reed
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    Baseball attracted about 68.5 million fans in 2019 after drawing nearly 80 million a dozen years earlier.’
    ‘the average age of baseball viewers is 57, with only 7% of viewers under 18.’

    This means that the value of MLB franchises is on its way to tanking, so it really doesn’t matter if there is a long strike, or not. The owners have gotten themselves caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. If there’s any chance at all of saving the value of an MLB franchise, something drastic is going to have to happen.

    ———————————-

    In 2019 MLB owners made more money than in 2018.
    In 2018 MLB owners made more money than in 2017.
    In 2017 MLB owners made more money than in 2016.
    And so on, and so on, and so on, for as far back as you want to go.

    Here’s a link to the revenue numbers over the past 15 years:https://www.statista.com/statistics/193466/total-league-revenue-of-the-mlb-since-2005/

    Revenues in 2007, when the attendance record was set, were roughly 5.5 billion dollars.
    Revenues in 2019 were approximately 10.4 billion dollars.

    Not only have revenues steadily increased, but the players’ share has been trending downward over the past 15-20 years or so. There’s no day of reckoning coming for anyone in the sport. Not the players, and certainly not the owners.

    Minor league teams are in some trouble. Not major league ones. Quite the contrary.

    #129551
    AvatarSoonerinNC
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    If there is an agreement it will occur in the 11th hour. Labor negotiations almost always go that way. The question is what is the 11th hour to open play July 4.

    #129552
    Avatargscottar
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    #129553
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    Like all industries, the owners are the party with the real power. They can give some away, but as we have seen they tend to hold on. The players share has shrunk some based on percent of revenue, but the players are not exactly hurting either.

    Now the owners have to be concerned about the long term value of their investment. For that reason I think a deal will get done, even if they (owners) have to suffer a little in the short term.

    #129563
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    If there is an agreement it will occur in the 11th hour.

    Most likely. Last is first.

    #129572
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Players proposal:

    #129576
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #129578
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

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    bikemike said:

    Now the owners have to be concerned about the long term value of their investment…

    Why do you think this? Has anyone been quoted?

    Seems to me that if this was the case, they would agree to “lose money” in 2020 and play. My perception is owners are more concerned about minimizing short-term loss than any supposed fear of long-term decline in value.

    I think reactions like what Olney shared – “the future of MLB is at stake” – is over-reaction. This will get worked out, either now or later, and MLB will continue.

    #129583
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
    Moderator

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    No quotes, but any owner, whether it is the average homeowner or a business owner, is concerned about the value of their asset. That is the prime driver of wealth.

    So yes, short term losses are less important than long-term declines in value. Thus I think a deal will be struck to at least play say a 60 game season, with post season play. Both sides have more to lose by not playing than playing.

    #129589
    Avatargscottar
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    I think reactions like what Olney shared – “the future of MLB is at stake” – is over-reaction. This will get worked out, either now or later, and MLB will continue.

    MLB will continue in some form or fashion eventually but what makes this potential work stoppage different than stoppages in the past is that all sports stopped at the same time this year, therefore, if the NBA, NHL, NFL, NCAA, Nascar, and European Soccer all resume this year and MLB doesn’t people are going to be looking at MLB like “what is wrong with you people?”

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by Avatargscottar.
    #129591
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    Both sides are negotiating like they’re not hurting for money enough to get a quick resolution. Problem is much more of the fan base that ultimately pays them both is hurting for money and might not care so much if they figure it out this year. These economic impacts will stick around a while. More critical consumer choices will be made due to lower discretionary spending, at least temporarily. Sometimes people’s temporary decisions turn into permanent ones.

    #129594
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    ED wrote: Both sides are negotiating like they’re not hurting for money enough to get a quick resolution. Problem is much more of the fan base that ultimately pays them both is hurting for money and might not care so much if they figure it out this year.

    Bingo. That echoes my sentiments exactly. You can support billionaires or millionaires or common fans who have no real say. I am in the last category and despite being tied down to my house a lot more than usual, I think I can tough it out through November but I sure hope we have college football to help the hurt.

    #129599
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    This could work out. MLB giving on pro-rata salary is big. 50-60 game regular season schedule perhaps.

    #129602
    Avatargscottar
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    Does that mean the season would start on August 1 or would the playoffs start in September?

    #129605
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    They could do a June ST2, July/August 60 game season without the doubleheaders, and a sept/oct extended postseason.
    They decrease their regular season expected losses of 4 billion (their numbers) by 25%, by decreasing games by 25%. Gives them 2 months to max their postseason dollars.
    Definitely a concession.

    #129609
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    This could work out. MLB giving on pro-rata salary is big. 50-60 game regular season schedule perhaps.

    I started to post this earlier in response to bikemike’s suggestion that maybe there’ll be a 60-game schedule. It’s the middle ground that meets the owner’s numbers (if you’re willing to believe those).

    So do the math. The Spotrac tweet above says the 82-game prorated player salary cost would be $1.9B. The owner’s scaled offer was $933M for 82 games, which is about half. That means the number of prorated games needs to be halved down to about 40 to meet the owner’s willingness to pay $933M in salary. However, they can probably go more than 40 games since they won’t be losing as much overall by playing fewer than the original 82 games that they proposed (remember they say they will lose more money for each game played). So maybe 60 games is about the sweet spot.

    #129613
    Avatar858booyah
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    I was on the fence on an 80 game season. 60 games seems like not enough ball or they want to stall and play later in the season until there’s a chance fans can start attending. I mean there’s no way NFL is coming back without some sort of fans in the seats.

    #129616
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    All of the protests and riots could lead to a significant uptick in COVID-19 cases in a couple weeks, which might derail things. On the other hand, if cases remain stable or go down, that might indicate the virus is really losing steam and give more confidence to move ahead.

    #129637
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    A 50-60 game season just doesn’t seem legitimate to me. It will be such a crapshoot anyone could get hot and win a championship. A Pirates-Orioles World Series?

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