Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2017-2018

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2017-2018

This topic contains 1,332 replies, has 38 voices, and was last updated by  Brian Walton 4 hours, 16 minutes ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1,276 through 1,300 (of 1,333 total)
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  • #43223

    thejager
    Participant

    Rosy wasn’t the only reason…Duke was the primary reason, but it would have held up for Lynn before too… and while yes Rosy doesnt seem likely to have gotten paid to sit the line of thinking (until you clarified is still valid)

    Now…having said that, i did not know it was allowed to happen once pitchers and catchers reported… that was what i was asking in the first place

    now…and this was probably discussed last year about Duke…but it holds true for every team… Why is this a rule? I mean when a player has a surgery or injury that is pretty universally understood to allow for them to be on the DL (and 60Day DL at that)… it seems kind of unfair for a team to punished because of an injury.

    Theoretically you could lose your entire 40man to 60day+ injuries and not be able to add anyone to your team until pitchers and catchers report without releasing players. Yes that is drastic and unrealistic, but it still is possible and regardless of it being the whole team or just one player, it punishes a team for NOT releasing an injured player. That seems like something that the players union wouldn’t want and I woudl think the owners would want to have available too.

    Yes, in theory someone could try to take advantage of it, but it wouldnt take much to keep in line IMO, abn independent medical panel that would look into the specific cases It wouldn’t be that many total anwyays). The biggest cheats would still only have those players stuck on the 60Day DL and still be presented with the problem of not being able to use those players they stashed after the 60 days.

    #43225

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    There is no credit for the days of Spring training for the 60 day dl (as Brian said) but for ckarity, I believe the 10 day dl can be backdated 3 days before the start of tbe regular season (i.e. during Zpring trauning)

    #43226

    forsch31
    Participant

    Jager, in what situation would you allow someone to be on the 60-day DL? Almost every injury would be healed before spring training or within the first 30 days of the regular season. The only ones that won’t are shoulder surgeries and Tommy John surgeries. Other than those 2, other injuries should heal in time.

    Given that situation, the only thing gained is a team being able to stash additional prospects without exposing them to the Rule V draft. That draft is to prevent teams from stockpiling prospects. Once the rule V draft is over, there is no reason to add anyone to the 40 man roster unless you are signing a free agent. At the end of spring training, a team might add a person to the 40 man roster if they want to add them to the 25 man active roster.

    #43229

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I want to make one minor modification to what I said before that it would serve no purpose to put an injured player on the 60-day during spring training. Here in 2018, it could matter after all.

    Here is why.

    Because of the slow signings across MLB, being able to put an injured player on the 60-day DL as soon as next week could be an advantage for teams wanting to sign free agents during spring camps. It is something that could always be done, but is more likely to be used this year.

    #43264

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Dr. Michael Miles wrote this about Alex Reyes… Its a solid idea that I tend to agree with.

    This might not be the most popular opinion, but Alex Reyes should definitely start the 2018 campaign in the minors for the St. Louis Cardinals. There, I’ve said it. If you hate me for this statement already, then this is likely not the article for you. If you are intrigued, then buckle up and hold on.

    The St. Louis Cardinals could 100 percent use the services of Alex Reyes in 2018. That is without question. The real issue here is whether Reyes (and his surgically-repaired arm) is ready to supply the type of help needed right out of the gate.

    https://redbirdrants.com/https://redbirdrants.com/

    #43266

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    No one said that Reyes would not ramp up on a minor league rehab stint before joining St. Louis. It would not be uncommon in the least. This way, he opens the season on the DL, but does not have to be optioned out and does not lose MLB service time.

    If fact, that is what I expected all along will happen. He could spend April in the minors getting ready at whatever pace they decide and come back to StL when they have targeted him in May (or whenever they deem him ready).

    Edit: To be clear, Mo already said weeks ago that Reyes would probably not be activated by the Cardinals until May. The only question would seem to be how he ramps up to it.

    #43274

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    I think it would be absolutely stupid for the Cardinals to send Reyes to Memphis on a rehab assignment. If he is healthy enough to pitch but needs to get more refined, option him to Memphis? Is there really a downside to that? Use an option, big deal. The upside is potentially huge. Maybe he stays down long enough for the Cardinals to gain another year of control. Maybe he gets injured – much better for team control issues if that happens as a minor leaguer than as a major leaguer on rehab. Again, no upside to sending him on rehab. Just option him.

    #43276

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    It might appear stupid that teams cannot do whatever they please, but there are rules that govern their actions agreed to by the players as part of collective bargaining. One example is that teams are explicitly prohibited from optioning out injured players.

    Rehabbing may be a gray area, but one reason they have rehab stints is for cases like this. If the player does not pitch well during the rehab, THEN he is optioned out.

    I do not know for a fact if rehabbing from an injury is considered a part of an injury as it relates to being optioned, but it seems logical that it is. After all, to prove he is healthy, he would have to pitch first in games for St. Louis – and all appearances are that is not part of the plan in March.

    If I was Reyes’ agent, I might threaten to file a grievance if Reyes is optioned out before he pitches in games. After all, at this point, there is no doubt he is a major leaguer.

    Regarding keeping him down long enough to gain another year of team control, that is almost certainly not going to happen. I wrote about this subject in some detail recently.

    Could the Cardinals Manipulate Alex Reyes’ Service Time? (subscriber article)

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  Brian Walton.
    #43300

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    This is Girsch talking about the rotation.

    “I guess one area that I’m probably more comfortable than I sense the general public is with our rotation,” he said. “I just think that we have a bunch of good starting pitchers and that if you choose to look at them in a way that is pessimistic and negative you can find something to be negative in all of them.

    “If you choose to look at them in a way that’s optimistic and based on their past performance you could be really optimistic that we have six or seven legitimate middle of the rotation or better type starters. I guess I would say I expect the rotation to be better than maybe what people think right now.”

    He seems to be very high on Ozuna and O’Neill.

    #43315
    mbusapp
    mbusapp
    Participant

    Has anyone ever seen or heard Greg Maddux’s thoughts on a 6 man rotation? Mikolosa is used to it. They want to keep the innings down for Reyes and Weaver. They want to not overwork Wainwright or Wacha. Is it time to consider it?

    #43319

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    I have seen many players removed from the DL and immediantly optioned. The key is if they are determined by the Dr. to be healthy. I dont see the Cardinals letting Reyes pitch rehab games if not determined to be healthy. If he is determined to be healthy they can file all the grievances they want – it wont matter. The Bryant case shows that teams have near absolute latitude on who they option out and who they dont.

    #43332

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    We will see. It could happen. However, the Bryant case is apples and oranges as there was no injury involved. Further, Bryant was not yet an established major leaguer, while Reyes has 1.055 service time. Bryant’s service time was managed for a reason. Reyes’ would not be.

    The Cards cannot save a year of free agency or avoid Super Two by optioning him out for one month. So there is no reason to do it other than to avoid a month of MLB salary to send him down in April. Yes, they could still do it, but the cited reason to cover their rear end in case of re-injury is not compelling, IMO.

    #43433

    gscottar
    Participant

    While the Cardinals current payroll is actually lower than last year I’m hoping they are factoring in a big acquisition or two at the deadline. For example, if we got Donaldson for two months that would cost about $8M. Two months of Machado would be $5M and two months of Zach Britton would be $4M assuming he is healthy.

    We are currently $56M under the luxury tax. We may or may not make some additions before opening day but we have plenty of dry powder to make moves in July if we choose to.

    #43434

    gscottar
    Participant
    #43438

    PadsFS
    Participant

    If the Cardinals are going to choose to burn a full year of Reyes’ service time out of 6, they might as well trade him for someone like Archer. If he’s in the bullpen, then he will have to build up the arm strength next year too, basically giving us four true years of (potentially) elite starting pitching.

    Archer has 4 years of service time and I’d rather get four quality years of starting pitching than potentially 4 and a half years + a solid bullpen piece.

    #43440

    mspaid
    Participant

    Pads!!!!!

    Trade Reyes? Are you trying to give junior a stroke? He looks kind of frail as it is.
    If ever there was a metaphysical certainty it is that Reyes will never be traded.

    #43446

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I missed where it was declared that Reyes would spend all of 2018 in the bullpen. In reality, I bet they don’t know yet. They also don’t usually make random unnecessary declarations they might have to back off from later on.

    On another point, that is why I sat up when they declared Gregerson closer the day he was signed. My interpretation was that it was a message to fans not to hope for additional relief trades or signings. Many announcements have an underlying intent.

    #43488

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Knizner is a name to watch. A career, 2-season minor league slash of .313/.378/.485 should strike fear in Kelly as Knizner could spell the end of Kelly’s career with the St. Louis Cardinals come the trade deadline. Mark these words and watch for it.

    This isn’t about Kelly or Knizner. It is about the imprudent three year blockade contract given to Molina. We will be giving up on a premier prospect without even giving him a chance to play.

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by  14NyquisT.
    #43490

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    The Molina deal has been done for a year now. Time to stop being angry about that.

    The idea that Kelly could be traded later – if Knizner steps up at Triple-A and Molina remains healthy, is a reasonable scenario – but far from certain. If the Cards like Kelly better, which I believe they do, I could see them trading Knizner, instead. Mark my words on that! 😉

    On the other hand, the thing that would seem to calm your concerns would be a Molina injury. No one is talking about the concussion situation that ended his 2017 season. It was serious and concussions have ended careers.

    My point being that nothing is certain.

    #43491

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Naturally, I screwed up the post due to my “B-Quote” mistake and had to compact it.

    I fail to see why Molina was given a three year extension at crazy money for an aging player. This is why we are having collusion-gate right now.

    I don’t want anyone to get hurt. Molina will play whenever he wants because he feels he is that good. On his part this is delusion, boarding on fantasy. I’m not fond of egomaniacs. This is why I am seething.

    #43492

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    I realize that nothing is certain. But THE contract has caused a no-win situation, no matter how you look at it.

    #43494

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    But what good is served by making the same contract-remorse posts for Molina and Fowler repeatedly? By now, everyone gets your point of view loud and clear.

    #43495

    gscottar
    Participant

    I never had a problem with giving Yadi the 3 year $60M extension. My problem was then the front office turns around and says that we only want to pay players based on what they are going to do in the future and not on what they did in the past? Really?? That seems a bit hypocritical. If Yadi is currently worth $20M per year then why aren’t we spending money on Darvish, Lynn, Holland, Morrison, or Hosmer? Maybe there is such a thing as an “icon exception.”

    #43657

    gscottar
    Participant

    A few minutes ago Casey Stern, who is usually complimentary of MO on his MLB radio show, really ripped the Cardinal front office by basically stating they are sending the message that they aren’t trying to win. He said that he thought initially the Cards were just posturing by stating they were done with big moves but now believes they truly are done, which should be a big concern considering what the Cubs and Brewers have done.

    He also stated that he never believes front offices when they say they aren’t worried about what their competitors are doing and are just going to do their own thing. Every business reacts to their competition to some degree and baseball is no exception. Apparently he wasn’t impressed with the Bud Norris move if it was intended to be a counter move to Darvish.

    #43658

    gscottar
    Participant
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