Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2017-2018

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2017-2018

This topic contains 1,332 replies, has 38 voices, and was last updated by  Brian Walton 4 hours, 20 minutes ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1,251 through 1,275 (of 1,333 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #42889

    thejager
    Participant

    Molina should be playing the bulk of the time…show me this huge decline in his performance

    everyone said before last year started and after he got that contract that he was going to continue to get worse like he “did” 1 yrs ago

    he only went on to be an AS top 3 in GG, and have one of his best years at the plate…. Why do you sit the best option offensively and defensively?

    It is all conjecture that Yadi will decline at such a rate and in such a way that he would not be worth running out there every day he wants or can

    He is still one of the best all around catchers in the game, and still top 5 for defense… Kelly doesnt deserve to play unless Yadi needs to rest to keep up his stellar play or heis play declines enough to warrant it…that’s it, it’s not hard

    which is why Kelly is being wasted because Kelly probably would be good…but the Cardinals dont need a starter level backup catcher for the role they are using Kelly for which is a once a week catcher and emergency pinch hitter….you dont need a player like Kelly for that…

    It’s nice to have insurance, but we dont have anything like that for SS and no one cares, and we have much more recent history of losing SSs to injury and poor performance than we do catchers

    We did pretty well when we didnt have future face of the franchise backup catchers in the past….Tony Cruz, GErald Laird, Gary Bennett all have rings to show for it…you don’t need a good all around backup catcher to win WSs nor do well in the playoffs…you need competent defensive backups so that your defense doesnt go to the crapper…

    a black hole on offense at the catcher position is pretty normal…and actually is exactly what we signed up for when we put Yadi in the starter spot (and what we came from with MM there)…no one cared about his bat not being any good…again we have been spoiled by how good Yadi is and has been that we cant even see that he is already much more than we ever thought we’d get from him…

    Now should we get into ST and we start seeing Kelly with some time at 1b or 3b….now we are talking that his role will have changed somewhat…and that might be worth holding on to… but as pure backup catcher goes…his skill and value is being planned on being wasted…. as Yadi is showing no signs of degradation out the point of needing replacing in any way

    I think his development especially at the plate will suffer greatly in the next 3 yrs even if he got 2 starts a week. Why not get good trade value out of him while we can, and get back something we could really use right now…and we haev depended on Yadi in the past and he has come through almost always.. will that end…probably…but it is a guess for when…let someone who doesnt have much value other than AS a backup catcher role fill that role… we have plenty of guys behind Kelly that can take up the future catcher mantle should we move Kelly…and even if they all dont pan out…we can always sign one in FA in the future or trade for one if need be…

    as much as good catchers are hard to find…we have a pretty good record of finding them and creating them…losing Kelly now woudl give us pretty much 3 yrs to find or create another…and we already have several guys up for that it seems… using some FA fillers should Yadi go down is part of every organizational structure… who out there has multiple high level catching options on the 25 man? no one really… because it is a waste… even when Cleveland called up Mejia to fit with Perez and Gomes..they started working him at 2b and other positions in hopes of finding a way to utilize him instead of letting him sit on the bench…and they have a DH in that league

    #42890

    thejager
    Participant

    per the Darvish stuff…

    man those players and families must be getting pretty antsy…no one wants to buckle first obviously so there isp ride built into this too…but man it has to be nerve racking

    at first i thought the idea the FAs had for their own spring training was dumb…but maybe it will be necessary

    #42891

    gscottar
    Participant

    From what I’ve read on Darvish is that his top two choices are the Dodgers and Yankees and he is waiting to see if one of those two teams can clear enough payroll space to sign him. Easier said than done I imagine.

    In the end most “insiders” still think he ends up with the Cubs although it appears the Brewers are giving it a shot. I appreciate the Brewers’ aggressiveness. Other small market teams like the Cardinals should take note.

    #42892

    thejager
    Participant

    even if he doesnt go to the Brewers or Cubs…both of those teams are still going to make a move for a starter

    everyone is just playing chicken now

    If i HAD to prognosticate

    I feel like Lynn will end up with the Cubs…as their experience with seeing him, his solid pitching performance, k’s, innings, and reasonable age, will make them feel more confident about giving him what he wants

    The Brewers i think will use Santana and maybe one of their depth infielders like Villar or Perez to get a starter from someone… Salazar from the Indians had some traction i think…they save their money or snag a 1yr guy like Cashner for insurance

    I think the Yanks snag Darvish…ARrieta ends up in Texas…Cobb goes to Seattle

    JD eventually ends up in Boston, KC brings back Hosmer, Yankees get Moose too…LuCroy to AZ… Realmuto goes to Washington for guys not named Soto or Robles…LoMo stays in TB….Frazier heads to SD…HOlland goes to Cubs….

    and that’s as far as i can straight up guess right now…

    fun to think out loud though…id bet i am wrong on all of them!

    #42943

    thejager
    Participant

    saw on rotoworld (via somewhere else i am sure) that the Brewers were discussing Archer with the Rays

    they figure it would take more than Santana or Phillips…

    that would not be fun to lose out on Archer if available inside the central…

    #42962

    shakenbake McBride
    Participant

    all this talk of Carson Kelly reminds me of two can’t miss catching prospects from the past namely; Terry Kennedy and Todd Zeile. Neither were able to live up to their hype.

    #42963

    NJ315
    Participant

    So trade him while the hype is on. No sense holding on to him since Yadi is here for three more years.

    #42964

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Wow, shakenbake, you set the bar very high.

    Kennedy played 14 years in the majors. He was named to four All-Star teams, won a Silver Slugger and received MVP votes twice. His career OPS+ was 96, almost identical to Yadier Molina (98).

    Zeile later moved to third base, but was an above-average hitter (104 career OPS+) for 16 years in the majors.

    I cannot speak for others, but it seems to me that if Kelly remains in the majors for 15 years, picks up a few awards along the way and has an MLB-average bat over that entire span, I think most reasonable folks should be absolutely delighted.

    P.S. I have pegged Kelly’s career ceiling as above-average MLB starter (6), not an All-Star (7) or elite/Hall of Fame caliber talent (8).

    #42966
    mbusapp
    mbusapp
    Participant

    Would you trade Flaherty, Tuivailala and two mid-level prospects (21 – 40) for Duffy and Herrera? Duffy is signed through 2011 at a very reasonable 13M a season. He had a higher WAR last season than any Cardinal hurler. Herrera is a FA after this season, but if he does a good job closing we could try to extend him. Royals save 20 million they can use to resign Hosmer and Moose.

    #42969

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    IMO Reyes, Flaherty, Hudson, Hicks, Knizner and JAGarcia should be off the table. They project to be the core of this team in the near future. Trading any of these prospecst is a no-no.

    #42973

    Onyxgem
    Participant

    Never say trading a prospect is a no-no espeicially when such a HUGE % never make it

    #42983

    gscottar
    Participant

    “Prospects are cool but parades are cooler.” Casey Stern

    #42985

    thejager
    Participant

    mbus

    Duffy and HErrera would be a nice sneaky snag…i’d happily do your trade but I’d rather package Hudson and Tuivalala and add a better 3rd prospect or two in that scenario as i still think Flaherty is an nice guy to have around…

    Herrera is a nice trade target though a 1yr rental is a little worrisome….trading out 1yr of Herrera for Tuivalala wwho may just as good (as Herrera was down last year) might be problematic too…

    I do like Duffy though… he goes in my group of guys to target via trades

    Archer
    Stroman
    Fulmer (DET)
    Duffy

    #43088

    gscottar
    Participant

    I’m not sure about Duffy but I would love to get Herrera. I would think Tui and a lottery ticket would get it done since the Royals are looking for salary relief.

    The Royals are in a strange position. Most teams are clearly either tanking or going for it. They seem to be stuck in the middle. Instead of trading their players last July with expiring contracts they kept them and now they don’t know what to do. They don’t have the budget to bring everyone back and they missed their chance to get any kind of return. I suspect KC has many years of mediocrity ahead of them.

    #43091

    shakenbake McBride
    Participant
    #43098

    gscottar
    Participant

    Just about every “insider” in the business thinks the Cards should make another significant addition or two. So far Cardinal management has disagreed.

    #43142

    PadsFS
    Participant

    mbusapp

    Would you trade Flaherty, Tuivailala and two mid-level prospects (21 – 40) for Duffy and Herrera? Duffy is signed through 2011 at a very reasonable 13M a season. He had a higher WAR last season than any Cardinal hurler. Herrera is a FA after this season, but if he does a good job closing we could try to extend him. Royals save 20 million they can use to resign Hosmer and Moose.

    I would definitely do that trade. Flaherty should only be used in a trade that would upgrade the rotation (Duffy, Archer, etc.) and this would definitely do that. Reyes should be untouchable coming off injury. I don’t think the returns would warrant what he’s worth.

    #43145

    PadsFS
    Participant

    With the FA market stymied, I’d love to see us take a hard look at Alex Cobb. He looks like a much better bet to be above-average than Lynn for the next three or four years. Let Weaver and Mikolas fight it out for the fifth starter and keep Flaherty in AAA to start the year. It’s almost guaranteed that someone will get injured so it can’t hurt to have an extra starter on the staff.

    #43152

    gscottar
    Participant

    It seems to me that the Cardinal brass is really counting on the coaching staff changes to pick up some wins over last year. Is this realistic? If so, how many wins can Oquendo, Maddux, and McGee account for? And how would you quantify this?

    #43156

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Many experts of the game downplay the theory that managers and coaches have a big effect on Ws and Ls. I would agree with those who do.

    #43159

    mspaid
    Participant

    If they expect the coaches to make up for the lack of talent then the organization is a joke.

    #43206

    thejager
    Participant

    Quick question

    I saw that the MEts said they were considering adding David Wright to the 60 Day DL as soon as Feb. 14th. I thought you couldn’t add guys to the 60 day DL until the season started?

    I feel like that would have been very useful to the Cardinals to do in the last couple years when we had guys who were obviously hurt in the offseason and yet were taking up spots on the 40man which we could have used to protect players.

    Obviously i am missing something, can someone explain? Brian?

    #43214

    PadsFS
    Participant

    Zack Duke comes to mind immediately.

    #43216

    thejager
    Participant

    exactly…so i dont get it…is there some special clause?

    Duke and then Reyes later ate up 40man spots even though they were hurt…i even wonder fi we might have gave Rosy a contract this year had we been able to still get that 40man spot

    #43218

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Regarding Rosenthal, they weren’t going to pay him $6 or $7 MM to be on the DL most or all of the season, then leave at the end of the year. The 40-man spot was not a factor.

    On the 60-day DL rule, first is that the 40-man has to already be full. Other than that, it can be deployed at any time after pitchers and catchers report.

    However, it does not matter until the regular season opener, when rosters must be set. There is no advantage to place a player on the 60-day DL during spring, because spring training days do not count against the 60.

Viewing 25 posts - 1,251 through 1,275 (of 1,333 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.