Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2017-2018

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum Trade Ideas/Acquisition Ideas/Non-Cards Rumors – 2017-2018

This topic contains 1,358 replies, has 38 voices, and was last updated by  thejager 3 hours, 53 minutes ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 1,359 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #25967

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    A quick reminder of what this thread is about.

    If you have an idea for a trade or acquisition target for the Cardinals, this is the ideal place to discuss it. Same if you want to talk about a player in another organization or a free agent.

    On the other hand, we generally start new individual threads when a major media source connects the Cardinals with a particular player. At times, the moderators will merge new threads into this one if they are deemed to best fit here based on the preceding criteria.

    #26186

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I wrote about the Miguel Montero flap in Chicago the other day.

    #26283

    Cardinals2016
    Participant

    “On the other hand if we have an opportunity to do something that strengthens our club this year and into the future and maybe if we’re totally out of the race, which I don’t think we will be, maybe we do something that could help us. We’d try to do something with a short-term asset to get a long term asset. Those opportunities may develop. I’m patient. I play the long game. Hopefully it will all work out.”

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jose-de-jesus-ortiz/ortiz-dewitt-committed-to-long-game-and-open-to-selling/article_c1e716ec-6392-5f9f-898e-c71915760ed5.html

    Reading DeWitt’s comments seems to indicate they will only “sell” people on expiring deals (Lynn and Oh)…

    #26294

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Thanks for sharing, C2016. That is what I would have guessed, as a conservative approach. Still the fact he was willing to say it removes a lot of uncertainty as to how they see themselves.

    #26349

    Cardinals2016
    Participant
    #26350

    Cardinals2016
    Participant

    Colorado Rockies: Starting pitching options at the trade deadline

    And a second Colorado fan site suggests Lynn as a possibility…

    #26385

    thejager
    Participant

    Ryan McMahon is the one I want from the Rockies.

    #26497

    mudville
    Participant

    If we trade Lynn, I want it to be for a true upper echelon prospect like Torres or Robles plus other top prospects. I don’t want to trade Lynn for any good, but not elite, prospects. We have plenty of those already. I don’t want to trade Lynn and then have to hear people say ‘We were going to lose him anyway, so at least we got something’. If we can’t get a truly exceptional prospect, then lets not trade Lynn. Lets take the additional draft pick after Competitive Balance Round B. This next draft is supposed to be deep.

    #26521

    thejager
    Participant

    You don’t think McMahon is elite? He’s a beast

    #26538

    Cardinals2016
    Participant

    From MLB.com’s writeup on McMahon:
    “McMahon has the tools to be an asset at the hot corner, but he is an erratic defender who has led his league in errors by a third baseman in each of the past two years, including 39 in 2015.:”

    #26581

    thejager
    Participant

    He’s had 1 error at third between AA and AAA this year.

    He’s 22

    He’s hitting .403 at AAA and has 8HRs and 14 total between AA and AAA

    What else do you want from a projectable Power hitting 3bman?

    He’s 22. Hits for power and average and doesn’t strike out a ton. He may not be a gold glove 3bman. So what?

    #26586

    Cardinals2016
    Participant

    He’s played about 15 games at 3B this year. He is being moved off 3B because he can’t handle it. He’ll become a power hitting 1B.

    I’d rather get an actual 3B prospect.

    #26637

    thejager
    Participant

    he has been playing a lot more 1b this year because they have Arenado blocking him for the next 10 years… they had better get him at another position or he wont ever get to play

    he’s 22 and can play 3b…and can get better…and hits like a beast…and even if he is destined for 1b…who is really in his way? Carp has already moved off 1b to 2b just for Voit…who is not McMahon

    you can “Get” whoever you want…but instead of attacking because you dont like the guy i chose, throw out some other ideas…instead of adding nothign to the discussion but disssent

    we don’t need a 3bman…we NEED a middle of the order hitter….McMahon is about as good looking prospect for what we actually need

    i’d day we have far more options for 3b that i feel comfortable with than 1b anyways

    #26693

    PadsFS
    Participant

    I like Devers in Boston and Torres in New York as potential targets. They are both blocked like McMahon.

    The Rockies will be tough to trade with. They are losing Gonzalez (and Reynolds) this year, and can just back-fill their less demanding positions with guys like McMahon and Tapia by shifting Desmond and Blackmon around. Perhaps we can get them to give up Rodgers if they believe Story is the real deal?

    I don’t really see us matching up since we don’t have great pitching to offer them. Carlos Gonzalez could be an interesting addition if Lynn’s value falls even further (or Oh’s for that matter)

    #26741

    Cardinals2016
    Participant

    How is Devers blocked?

    Boston has shown that they will put expensive failures at AAA (Allen Craig, Rusney Castillo).

    #26743

    Cardinals2016
    Participant

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2017/07/05/marlins-all-star-game-sale-jeffrey-loria/453033001/

    Stanton should be really cheap if the Cardinals wanted him (say Piscotty + Weaver)…

    Philadelphia has said they’d be willing to take on Stanton’s contract (they have one contract on the books after 2018), but only if they also get Yelich…

    I would think the people buying the Marlins would have some say about what pieces get traded and what ones don’t, but who knows…

    #26764

    Cardinals2016
    Participant

    I don’t think acquiring Donaldson makes sense at this point. 3B is fine with Gyorko. I would go after corner outfielders – specifically, outfielders from Miami:

    This would be what I would do:
    1. Call Miami about trading Dexter Fowler straight up for Giancarlo Stanton (opening part of negotiation). If we could do this, we are assuming an extra $10 million per year over next four years, have a cleanup hitter for the next decade. It’s the kind of deal that makes sense given where the Cardinals are at and where the Marlins are at. Stanton’s contract is the number one impediment to the sale of the Marlins. This will save the Marlins new owners $260 million in future obligations, and while scary to be paying Stanton until he is 38, he could always be moved to 1B in a few years or traded to the American League. Perhaps they could buy out his option to opt-in for $10-20 million and he becomes a free agent in 2020 or whenever that is…

    Fowler should waive his no-trade clause because he can see the writing on the wall. His defense is not good enough to play CF in St. Louis, he is going to lose the CF job no later than next year, and he is likely going to be 4th OF in 2-3 years. He has no such issues in Miami. Also, he can save a few hundred thousand dollars per year in state and city income taxes.

    The kicker to get the deal done: The Cardinals probably need to be willing to add in Luke Weaver or another highly ranked pitcher to get the deal done…

    To change their mindset that they are unwilling to trade in more than a 1:1 ratio, the Cardinals have to think of Dexter Fowler as cash (what they gave up to acquire him), not a tradeable asset. Then, they are acquiring Stanton for Weaver + Cash for Stanton. Semantics, but probably the only way they break from their 1:1 trade ratio.

    Miami will do it because they get a starting OF back, a Top 50 pitcher, and get rid of $260 million in future obligations (net).

    2. The second option is more of a longshot, because it requires the Cardinals to trade in a greater than 1:1 ratio. Acquire either Ozuna or Yelich (I like Ozuna’s bat better, the Cardinals would probably go for Yelich’s years of cost control).

    Offer: Piscotty + Bader + Alcantara for whichever Miami player the Cardinals target. Be willing to add in a pitcher of the caliber of Hudson to get a deal done.

    You could then have acquired your #3 & #4 hitters for the next several years, and you clear the paths for Sierra and Jose Adolis Garcia (assuming you will wind up trading Pham and Grichuk over the next two years). Gyorko gets pushed down to #5, Yadi down to #6 in the order. Use Pham/Wong/Greg Garcia as your #2.

    #26793

    NJ315
    Participant

    Why would Miami want Fowler? Also you’re expecting Fowler to waive his NTC, that would be more difficult than you think.

    #26797

    Cardinals2016
    Participant

    They get a major league player to take Stanton’s spot (they don’t have prospects to call up), get a MLB-ready pitcher in the Top 50 prospects, AND clear $260 million in future obligations off their books.

    If you read the article from USA Today, you see they are on pace to lose $60 million this year, have $500 million in debt, and $488 million in future obligations. $325 million of those future obligations are Stanton. They are trading $325 million in obligations for $66 million. That helps with the sale price of the club, which is how the current owners are going to make their money back.

    So far, the only team that has stated they are willing to take on Stanton’s contract is Philadelphia. But they want Yelich included as part of the deal. Miami gets a greater return by dealing them separately, as Yelich on his own will likely bring back 4-5 prospects.

    The other big contract they have to get rid of is Dee Gordon.

    They are only trading Ozuna and Yelich to get major prospect hauls and rebuild the farm system (Ozuna and Yelich are on reasonable deals)…But if you trade two-out-of-three or all three, you need some major league players or major league-ready players coming back.

    #26803

    stlcard25
    Participant

    The only way I really want to see a trade for Stanton is if they’re certain they won’t be players for anyone after 2018 or 2019. Would hate to see $30m a year plunked down on one guy (who really hasn’t been a superstar but for one season, some of it due to injuries) and then have zero payroll room to get a legit star in the next two loaded FA classes.

    I suppose if you manage to trade away Fowler and Carpenter, that offsets the salary…I’m still of the opinion that Carp hitting in front of a true slugger is a very dangerous hitter (he was leading the league in OPS last year before his oblique injury) and would prefer not to trade him unless they can get a big return. VEB did an analysis not long ago on what value you might fairly get in a trade and Carpenter was not worth very much by that metric. Like, 1 back end top 100 guy-low value. I was a little shocked.

    #26806

    NJ315
    Participant

    The can get something better than Fowler for less money and probably the equivalent in prospects. I don’t see Miami even looking Fowler’s way.

    #26811

    gscottar
    Participant

    I read an article online today, maybe from Jim Bowden, suggesting that the Cards offer Miami Piscotty, Gomber, and Woodford for Stanton. I just don’t see it happening.

    #26814

    mudville
    Participant

    Its hard for me to imagine the Cardinals taking on that kind of contract for any player, ever. But then, stranger things have happened. What a different team this would be if they acquired Stanton and Donaldson! They have the trade pieces to do it, IMO. But it might too much for them to carry long term. Donaldson is likely going to want Stanton money, and that’s close to 30M/yr.

    #26818

    PadsFS
    Participant

    Fowler should waive his no-trade clause because he can see the writing on the wall. His defense is not good enough to play CF in St. Louis, he is going to lose the CF job no later than next year, and he is likely going to be 4th OF in 2-3 years. He has no such issues in Miami. Also, he can save a few hundred thousand dollars per year in state and city income taxes.

    This is a ridiculous paragraph. Fowler is having his best offensive season ever this year or at least was very close to it.

    #26840

    forsch31
    Participant

    If that is all it would take, Girsch should have had the deal done a few hours ago. I don’t see anyway the Marlins would trade him for that package.

    The Marlins may need to move Stanton for financial reasons but I imagine that some team will be willing to pay a lot for him. I don’t see a trade return centered around Fowler or Piscotty would be enough to pry him away from them.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 1,359 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.