Slow Market. Owner collusion? Player strike?

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This topic contains 79 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by  mspaid 1 week, 1 day ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 80 total)
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  • #43283

    mspaid
    Participant

    I don’t like Bernie as a rule but this time he has it right.

    #43297

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    bc, well said. When I was growing up young kids played baseball, football and basketball. That’s all there was. Baseball was played everywhere in the Spring and Summer. Sadly, now all of those diamonds where they once played THE game, are parking lots or soccer fields, or parking lots for soccer fields.

    There is also the electronics that are turning the younger set into veggies. Where are the baseball players of tomorrow going to come from? And who is going to go to watch THE games?

    #43299

    mspaid
    Participant

    Is this a record for the number of quality unsigned free agents one week before ST? I have no idea. Doe anyone know?

    #43301

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    I’m sure it is. They can’t book flights because they don’t know where to go, if at all. There’ll be a record number of FAs sitting at home watching the ST games or golf on TV or consulting with their agents.

    #43320

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    I am not saying Bernie is wrong. Simply that he has a history of changing his positions based on public sentiment. If he feels sentiment changing to be against the owners he will back peddle. Count in it.

    #43321

    SoonerinNC
    Participant

    I have sat and thought too long on an appropriate response to this topic. So I will just throw out a few thoughts.

    We probably range from those who think a player should be a free agent every year after they sign their first professional contract to those who are more inclined to the years when owners had almost absolute control. And unfortunately too many of us are totally resistant to any other ideas than our own.

    The draft was created to prevent the big money people from dominating the game. Now there are teams accused of devious tanking to take advantage of the draft. Probably true in some cases but if you evaluate the cumulative WAR between players drafted, free agent signings and trades you will find that the draft contributed the least cumulated WAR to the success of the Cubs and Astros of the three categories. Also particularly the Cubs had a long history of low draft choices and generally blew them, leading to their long stretch of losses. In contrast players acquired as free agents and in trades had very little impact on the Cardinals performance.

    I am against a four year free agency. The better players usually can increase their salaries with long term contracts and through arbitration but admittedly they still are probably not paid enough for the value they provide. There are also a lot of players who are not tendered when they reach arbitration. Probably many underpaid but some due to the minimum, overpaid. Hard to devise a system that would pay everyone fairly and people can usually game any system developed.

    It is hard to reach good systems. Too many are the result of the pendulum swinging too far one way and the over correction the other way. And over time smart people find the flaws in the system and exploit them.

    I know this drivel is too long with too little value. I suspect that this issue is a hint that we may be looking at a player strike the next contract.

    #43322
    BlackHillsCard
    BlackHillsCard
    Participant

    Can we start a pool if there will be a strike or lockout at the next CBA?

    #43331

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Sooner and BHC, I hope we are all still here in four years when the current CBA expires – but even if so, we probably will not remember this thread! 😉

    #43345

    1964cards
    Participant

    It has to be collusion…plain and simple. Is there any ither explanation for each Steve Boras client not signing a record deal extending to age 45!

    #43346

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    i think it is the players who are colluding.

    #43347

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    The union is scouting out sites for a free agent spring training camp.

    https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-mlbpa-preparing-conduct-spring-training-camps-free-agents-010746795.html

    #43373

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    I counted 93 FAs left from ESPN’s list. That’s enough for three teams to play games round robin style. They can charge admission to pay for their meals.

    #43381

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I imagine the union isn’t hurting for money, but it raises an interesting question. I wonder what players pay in dues?

    #43387

    Onyxgem
    Participant

    It isn’t the players colluding or you wouldn’t have them signing like Cain just did…..

    #43389

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    GMs getting itchy also to fill some holes.

    #43391

    gscottar
    Participant

    It isn’t the players colluding or you wouldn’t have them signing like Cain just did…..

    I think it is the owners being accused of collusion, not the players.

    #43398

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    From Ken Rosenthal:

    Spring-training camp for unsigned free agents will be at IMG Academy in Bradenton, Fl.

    https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/961685429568274432

    #43399

    thejager
    Participant

    Boras said his clients wont go to that FA Spring training it seems

    also…it seems more like “collusion” may not be the right word…as Boras represents so many of these important players it really is him who is holding all this up…seems like he is advising the players to sit out and not sign contracts so he can the big pay day he wants… it is all about him getting paid, not the players…

    Maybe some reform needs to happen in regards to agents and companies representing too many players to the point of causing issues like this where an agent or company can hold up the entire process because they represent too many

    limit the amount of players and agent can represent and you won’t have this issue IMO…how you build that into a players union agreement i dont know but i think it would only help. the owners would undoubtedly be on board and the players wouldnt stagnate while a few rich guys want to get bigger cuts at the expense of their product’s(players) potential value

    at this point Boras and a few others are monopolies on free agency and monopolies stifle movement and creativity to take care of their monopolies first. not the product. With more competition it would force change and movement…not grind to a halt like it is

    at the moment there is nothign to do but wait for someone to flinch and both owners and agents are being hard headed and dont want to give in..players want as much as they can get too but they also want security and know that preparation for the season really does matter…i dont think any of these guys want to sit around or sit out the year…they are just being advised to hold out for the betterment of the other players represented by their agent

    all my opinion of course

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by  thejager.
    #43401

    mspaid
    Participant

    I don’t think there is collusion and I’m not convinced anyone will flinch. Teams have acquired players including the Cardinals and those teams are ready for ST. Sure, they’d like to have some of the big names but those players want too much money and too many years. I’m not sure what is going to happen this year but next year I believe we could see many players sign sooner for less money and fewer years.

    #43402

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I do not think the primary issue is Agent A vs. Agent B, though the insistence of the top players for too many years and/or too much money seems to have contributed to the slow down of the overall market. Still, there are something like 120 free agents still out there, represented by many agents. When all is said and done, the player controls his future. The agent works for him. If a player felt he is being held down by his particular agent, he could either order his agent to take the best deal he can get or worst case, switch agents.

    #43408
    BlackHillsCard
    BlackHillsCard
    Participant

    Does anyone think expansion could help solve this problem? Just wondering what people’s thoughts are.
    Obviously it wouldn’t the only solution but it could be one of the solutions.

    #43410

    mudville
    Participant

    Are you thinking that expansion, because of the expansion draft, would reduce the amount of talent that existing major league clubs have available to them, thus forcing them to pay whatever it takes to acquire talent in free agency? If so, I think that is a plausible argument. But I don’t think it would actually happen that way because, IMO, what’s happening is a market correction occurring for reasons described elsewhere. I don’t think those reasons are going to change. I think the organizations believe they are doing the right things for themselves.

    #43412

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Maybe baseball needs Vince McMahon! Another kind of expansion – here comes the XLB! 😉

    #43415

    mudville
    Participant

    I think that if this thing is left to play out, the additional money that the Owners are saving will eventually be redistributed. Who knows how that would happen? But I would like to see some of the money allocated to the MLB league minimum which is currently $507,500. I’d like to see that doubled or tripled so that every kid that can hang on for at least a year at the major league level gets to be a millionaire. The rest of the money should go to the fans, and I think that could happen. I think that, if the fans are seeing that the players they come to watch are no longer getting paid insane amounts of money, they would start resisting paying those high prices for tickets, and the ball clubs would then have to lower prices which would lower income to the ball club, and effectively, redistribute money to the fans in the form of lower ticket prices. This, obviously, is all hypothetical, but not impossible.

    #43423

    mspaid
    Participant

    Mudville:

    Your Marxian analysis is amusing but I assure you the owners are not giving any money to the fans or anyone else.

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