Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › Paul Goldschmidt Thread
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December 4, 2018 at 3:51 pm #75972
I know Mike Ferrin personally and he is well-connected in Arizona. I would give his words similar credibility to Craig Mish in Miami.
December 4, 2018 at 4:02 pm #75973Goldschmidt will be 31 next year so he should have a handful of good years left in him. I just wouldn’t expect him to hit .330 with 40 dingers and 125 rbis. If he can hit around .280-.300 with 25 dingers and 80-90 rbis, and Ozuna can pretty much do the same thing, the middle of the lineup should be pretty good.
You can forget St. Louis giving up Reyes or Flaherty. Not gonna happen.
r/Rat
December 4, 2018 at 4:40 pm #75974I certainly would not trade Gorman, Flaherty, or Reyes. Cmart maybe, JMart definitely. But the whole idea of having Carpenter back at third scares the hell out of me. Heck I would go for Carpenter for Goldshmidt, and sign Moustakas. Gyorko and/or Jmart could go for relief help.
December 5, 2018 at 9:35 am #76008From 2013-2018, Paul Goldschmidt was arguably the 3rd most impactful player in MLB:
1. Trout: 54.0 WAR
2. Donaldson: 35.6
3. Goldschmidt: 32.9
4. Betts: 30.5
5. Altuve: 29.4He was great last year, too (5.1 WAR, 17th). If he went to the Cardinals, it would be a big deal.
— Michael Cerami (@Michael_Cerami) December 4, 2018
December 5, 2018 at 9:47 am #76009To gscottar’s comment on the previous page, my feeling is that those who are expecting a contract extension to be a contingency for the Goldy trade to happen are not being realistic. No reason to believe the player would be motivated to do it, so if the Cards play hardball, the Snakes could just trade him to the Astros or elsewhere instead.
December 5, 2018 at 9:51 am #76010NJ315ParticipantI can understand him being that good ages 26-31. How long of a contract will he get based on those numbers? Has any long-term contract with players on the wrong side of 30 have worked out? I can only think of one. Matt Holliday. Will we be as lucky the second time around? I don’t want Goldy but I can accept I am a minority of one on this.
December 5, 2018 at 10:09 am #76014Like I said…
For those unfamiliar, there is a period after a trade is agreed to but before it is official for the new team to talk with the player (who is still under contract to the old team). But everyone has to agree for this to happen.
My guess as to why this isn’t being granted is that Goldschmidt and his agent do not want to sign now. If I was them, I would feel the same way.
If the Cards want him, they are going to have to take their chances. If they win a title in 2019, will this matter?
The #STLCards won't be granted a 72-hour window to sign Paul Goldschmidt to a contract extension in trade talks with the #Dbacks, , but Cards are confident that if Goldschmidt came to St. Louis, he'd fall in love with the place. The #Astros also are in play as potential suitors.
— Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) December 5, 2018
December 5, 2018 at 10:15 am #76015We just need to roll the dice and do this deal. We probably got a decent chance of him re-signing after next season but if not take the comp pick and move on. I know that trading quality young players for one guaranteed year is risky, but as we have said before, we have to get out of our comfort zone if want to overtake the Cubs and Brewers. Playing it safe isn’t cutting it.
December 5, 2018 at 10:21 am #76018Yup, best case is a resign, worst is a comp pick.
Well, actually the worst would be if he pulls a Donaldson and they get nothing. But he’s a talented player and we need all of them we can get.
Get it done, Mo.
December 5, 2018 at 10:26 am #76020NJ315ParticipantDon’t do it Mo.
December 5, 2018 at 10:30 am #76021Don’t do it Mo.
NJ, I just can’t see a scenario barring a massive overpay or a major injury where this team isn’t better in 2019 by trading for Goldschmidt. And the team likely is better in 2020, 2021, etc if they sign an extension. Maybe I’m missing something, but are you convinced that the Cards will give up Flaherty or an elite prospect for him, that Goldy will be injured or regress, or what?
On a one year rental, I think this works out great for St Louis, if they pay in prospects for that. Long term, I still feel it’s likely a win, but the confidence is slightly less.
December 5, 2018 at 10:47 am #76024I am in the rather sign Harper camp as we not giving up young talent and not taking back most likely is a rental…not a huge fan of trading for rentals at all especially when they are going to be costly to acquire.
December 5, 2018 at 10:58 am #76026NJ315ParticipantI have no doubt Goldy makes the team much better. It is not about that. If it is a 1 year deal I can live with that. I just do not want Goldy 33-37 or even 38. If trading for Goldy wins the 2019 WS I will serve myself a huge plate of crow put salt and pepper and be very happy to eat all of it. I just don’t see it.
December 5, 2018 at 11:23 am #76031Like with anything, it depends on the cost.
With Harper, it is about the money. With Godldschmidt, it is about the prospects. Who do the Cardinals have to give up to acquire Goldschmidt?
It would be lessened if they took on Greinke, but reports are saying the Cardinals are unwilling to do that…
December 5, 2018 at 11:56 am #76034I’d rather have Harper. I’m just not on-board with trading for an over 30 rental. And is he enough to push this team over the top to win a championship by himself? I just don’t think he is. I know other moves would be required but how does his acquisition fix 3B or RF? How about closer? Is Hicks the guy? What am I missing?
December 5, 2018 at 12:05 pm #76035but how does his acquisition fix 3B or RF? How about closer? Is Hicks the guy? What am I missing?
Well, 3B isn’t really an issue, as we will get at least average production from 3B just like we do everywhere else. If you get Machado to play 3B, then yes, it makes sense to upgrade, otherwise, not really.
No, it doesn’t fix the fact that Dexter Fowler is our RF.
No, it doesn’t fix the relief corps, though it could open up roster spots to sign guys.
What this is, is a typical Cardinals move to moderately improve without being locked into a long term mistake (like Dexter Fowler).
December 5, 2018 at 12:30 pm #76037Why do some people think the Cards can and will only make one move? In fact, how do we know that multiple players to StL might not be involved in a Goldschmidt trade?
December 5, 2018 at 12:39 pm #76038I very clearly stated that a trade would open up spots to sign the (LH) relievers they have openly stated they are going to sign.
There are really only two people on Arizona I would consider as upgrades besides Goldschmidt – Peralta over Fowler and Greinke over Wacha.
December 5, 2018 at 12:44 pm #76040We do not know that, BW. Some people just like to gripe, no matter what the Cards do.
3B will be more than fine if we make this trade. Carpenter will be one of the better 3B in the league, regardless of how you value his defense.
RF is a tough spot as you kind of have to play Fowler at least some to try to get some value from his deal. But personally, I think Mo knows that he’s the next to go unless things turn around, and Dex is not going to get a long time to get things turned around. O’Neill will be in by June if we see more play like 2018 Fowler.
1b would be great with Goldy. 2B is acceptable…better even if the 2nd half Wong shows up. Ditto SS and CF. Great up the middle defense on this team. Then you’ve got Ozuna, who is a big wild card here. We all know he was hurt the entire season by now. He still had a respectable line. He’s in his walk year, so if he’s healthy and engaged he should put up a big season.
Carp-Dejong-Goldy-Ozuna-O’Neill/Dex-Yadi-Bader-Wong
Cmart-Mikolas-Flaherty-Wacha-Waino/Gant/Gomber/Reyes
Shore up the bullpen with trades of Jmart and/or Gyorko and that team is competitive with the Brewers and Cubs.
December 5, 2018 at 12:51 pm #76041Acquiring Goldschimdt allows us to maintain enough payroll flexibility to do other things like the bullpen and RF. Signing Harper means we are probably done except for a few minor tweaks and dumpster dives. Why can’t some of you see that? Wake up.
December 5, 2018 at 1:24 pm #76046Why do some people think the Cards can and will only make one move? In fact, how do we know that multiple players to StL might not be involved in a Goldschmidt trade?
Well I’m sure some of that is directed at me Brian. I’m not complaining. I’m simply asking. I even said they would have to make other moves but what would they be? This team has been a patch work of misfits on defense for a while now. I don’t think many would argue with that statement. While Goldschmidt would help make first base stronger it weakens defensively third base and I like Carpenter. Also what would be going the other way? I know some believe Harper “handcuffs” them but I don’t think it does. They have a ton of payroll coming off the books in the next couple of seasons and increased revenue streams that are about to kick in. They have room to absorb it. I’m just concerned given their recent history that is all. Hopefully that concern will ease this offseason and during the season. I would love to see them get back to the postseason. Bottomline, if Goldschmidt is a piece of that I will end up being happy with it. Fair enough?
December 5, 2018 at 1:27 pm #76047How likely is a Paul Goldschmidt trade? One reporter thinks he's all but gone from the D-backs. https://t.co/a2NhpI8AGu
— 98.7 Arizona Sports (@AZSports) December 5, 2018
December 5, 2018 at 2:15 pm #76051Brian or another poster. Question.
Is it the club or the player/agent who allows the 72 hour window? I have always thought it was the club’s decision but apparently I am wrong?
December 5, 2018 at 2:54 pm #76058mikeD, I think you are right. If so, either Arizona does not want to mess with it* or they asked Goldschmidt’s agent about the idea and he said, “No, we don’t want to talk extension with anyone right now.” In the latter case, what good would granting a window accomplish if everyone already knows it will be a failure? I am guessing the latter.
* One would imagine that Arizona would be able to get more in the trade if they granted the window and Goldy accepted the Cardinals extension offer. He is a more valuable asset with a long-term contract. So Arizona should be motivated to try it – if it had a chance of being successful.
Likely, Arizona had prior discussions with Goldy’s agent to gauge his willingness to stay there and probably did not get the answers they were looking for, either.
December 5, 2018 at 3:13 pm #76061Thanks, Brian. I appreicate the explanation.
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