Off Season 40 Man Roster/ Rule 5 protection

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This topic contains 36 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  SoonerinNC 6 months ago.

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  • #29744

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    There has been a lot of discussion on this site and others speculating about the off season and 40 man roster spots and rule 5 protection. I did a post at the old site on this but will.update it here (basically starting over). Here is my take on those who I believe either need rule 5 protection or can become minor league free agents if not added to the 40 man roster.

    I am not going to speculate at this time how many spots will be open but merely suggest the order the Cards might choose to protect them. Some will disagree and I welcome the feedback/discussion.

    1. Alcantra
    2. O’Neill
    3. Gomber
    4. Ellis
    5. Montgomery
    6. Mercado
    7. Seferina
    8. Sherrif
    9. Morales
    10. Martini
    11. Reyes
    12. Wisdom
    13. Drake

    I have gone to 13 because that is the list of those that I think are at risk of being taken (though it is very slight after #8-9.)

    #29792

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Thinking out loud – should Pearce be on this list?

    #29796

    Brianpnoonan
    Participant

    …because im busy and have no time the next few days.

    How many spots will we have available?

    #29801

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    You would think that the organization would hate to lose any of the top three. IMO, Seferina would get serious consideration (I don’t know what SD’s needs are right now). I’d hate to see Andy Morales go…. he still has a lot to prove after his string of injuries.

    #29804

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    You never know how many available spots because you don’t know what roster moves they might make. We have a full 40 man roster plus Reyes on the 60 day DL. So not re-signing any of the 3 potential FA’s (Oh, Lynn, or Duke) there are 2 spots open. But might the re-sign Lynn or Duke? Do they try to sign a big bat like Martinez? Those spots can disappear quickly.

    They most likely will remove or trade Gilmartin and one of Valera/Mejia/Sosa. Wick probably as well. Mayers may also be at risk. They could (should) pull a 2 or 3 for 1 trade that could open some spots. It is really hard to say at this point. The team’s actions probably depend on who they think is at risk of being taken and who they really want to keep.

    #29810

    Brianpnoonan
    Participant

    That’s what I was thinking… But didnt want to talk out my ass more than usual.

    The top three are no brainers. After that…

    Personally? Mercado has to be protected. Plus (probably plus plus given he shoved sierra into left) cf defense with acceptable bat. Age appropriate level.

    Montgomery sherrif and ellis all depend on who we deal out of the pen.

    Seferina was a little old for Palm beach… But not outrageously and he is hitting in springfield where he is NOT too old. Bit of a tweener for this debate but someone might see value especially if he hits in the afl (not sure if he is going). My guess is protect him at aaa and we should be able to keep him.

    Below that im not so worried.

    If pearce needs to be protected or put into the bullpen we will probably lose him given our current backlog and that reyes will also be there next year.

    Whoever thought holding onto virtually all our arms at the deadline was smart in the organization is a moron.

    #29941

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    <<<<raising hand>>>> I guess I’m just a moron.

    #29946

    Brianpnoonan
    Participant

    /shrugs

    To each their own. It wont change my opinion.

    We have a glut of decent bullpen arms and a ton of young arms that can fill that gap within 2 years. As in… Somewhere around TEN more arms within two years. Maybe fifteen. Yes some are starters but still not all are or will be.

    It is an absurd number… And in a tight pitching market in a down year we didnt take advantage.

    It is stupid. There really is no other word for it.

    #29949

    mudville
    Participant

    The teams that were looking for pitching, weren’t looking for pitching prospects. They were looking for pitchers that would help them win now. The only legitimate trading chips we had were Lynn and Rosenthal. If we had gotten a fair offer for Lynn, he probably would have been traded. And, IMO, a fair offer for Lynn would have been something like what the Yankees got for Chapman last year because Lynn wins games. Rosenthal was getting really good again right before the trade deadline. And since that time, he has been one of the best closers in the game. Its a good thing we held onto him.

    #29954

    Brianpnoonan
    Participant

    …exactly. you backfill with prospects over the next year. Weaver and others could fill in immediately.

    We are under .500

    It was stupid not to deal

    #29979

    Bw52
    Participant

    IMO Wisdom is not protected.Arturo Reyes ditto and same for Blake Drake.Sherrif is on the fringes…and I think Cards drop Valera and Mayers Mejia also from the 40 man.Lynn and Duke leave thru Free agency.That and some offseason trades give a little room on the roster.I think Gilmartins staus depends on how well he pitches the rest of the year.If he can stay healthy maybe Cards could consider him for the pen and deal one of their other LH bullpen guys (Seigrist).Just throwing some thoughts out there.

    #30173

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Not sure how I missed him as I specifically checked on him but I left Ponce de Leon off the list. He slides in at #4 for me.

    1. Alcantra
    2. O’Neill
    3. Gomber
    4. Ponce de leon
    5 Ellis
    6. Montgomery
    7. Mercado
    8. Seferina
    9. Sherrif
    10. Morales
    11. Martini
    12. Reyes
    13. Pearce
    14. Wisdom
    15. Drake

    I have also added Pearce at 13.

    #30176

    bccran
    Participant

    Good positive thread. Hope no one takes it down a negative path by complaining about something regarding Cards off field or on field management.

    #30182

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    While some wont want to hear this, I wont be surprised to see Voit removed from the 40 man roster. Possibly before thr season is over.

    #30184

    bccran
    Participant

    That would be a shame.

    #30455

    Cardinals27
    Participant

    1 Alcantara
    2 O Neill
    3 Gomber
    4 Montgomery
    5 Mercado
    6 Wisdom
    7 Sheriff
    8 Martini

    Basically, I would hate to lose any of those mentioned by me or others, but I would really NOT want to lose the 8 I listed. The only thing I don’t know is if some will leave because they are minor league free agents. But I think, barring trade, it is invevitable we will lose quite a few players.

    #30473

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    On your list, I believe only Montgomery is a minor leage FA at the end of the year.

    #30491

    SoonerinNC
    Participant

    What are the criteria for rule 5 eligibility? I think it differs with age.

    #30494

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Basic rule for rule 5 eligibility – 4th rule 5 draft after signing if 19 y.o or above at time of signing. 5th rule 5 draft if 18 y.o. or less at time of signing.

    An intersting case is Alcantra. He signed in 2013 but did not play. But that makes this his 5th rule 5 draft and thus eligible even though he has the same number of minor league seasons as Junior Fernandez who signed in 2014 and is not eligible.

    #30583

    PadsFS
    Participant

    I don’t think Wisdom is all that special. I wouldn’t protect him. Nor would I protect Sherriff or Montgomery.

    O’Neill, Alcantara, Gomber, and Mercado make it. I’d probably drop Mejia for Seferina as well, but I could go either way.

    If they could package a couple guys like Grichuk and Bader (or O’Neill) or Grichuk and Kelly together in a trade for one elite player, that would help .

    #30585

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    I’m not sold on Mercado as worth protecting. He has dropped off a lot and I think it is unlikely he would stick all year on a major league roster (not even the Padres). Add in the fact that he is probably about #11 on our OF depth chart, it would not be the end of the world if we lost him.

    #30588

    Bw52
    Participant

    I have several thoughts and I think CC came up with a excellent list.I would like to add a couple of names for consideration .
    1.Josh Lucas RHP AAA Memphis 2010 draft-13-16 saves/save chances.3.43 E.R.A. 1.17 WHIP 63 K 55.1 IP-the Cards bullpen needs help so why not protect Lucas or else sign him before season is over and offer a Spring training shot.
    2.Rangel Ravelo 1B-25 year old RH batter.Good contact player.Not a Homerun hitter.At least keep him in the system and maybe he could be another RH contect bench bat.Probably a longshot to be added and is probably thought of as a AAA type roster filler by some but on a team full of swing or miss guys he would be different.

    Players who should be given consideration for 40 man and why;
    1.Mark Montgomery RHP 27 -fine season in bullpen at AAA.Low WHIP.Over 1 K per inning.Fits a area of need and could replace Mayers.
    2.Ryan Sherriff LHP 27-Cards LH bullpen guys have been inconsistent and why not let Sherriff show what he can do?
    3.Tyler O1Neill OF 22-he will be added to the roster.I would mind seeing him in September after AAA playoffs.
    4.Nick Martini OF-27 LHbatter-Why not another bench bat behind Garcia and Sierra?
    5.Patrick Wisdom 3B-1B- 26 h batter-why not ? See if he can be of any help in the future or let him go elsewhere.

    Guys who could be taken off 40-man
    1.Wick
    2.Mayers
    3.Sosa
    4.Alvarez
    5.maybe Gilmartin -He has had MLB success working out of the bullpen so maybe the Cards use him that way and keep him.

    #30597

    PadsFS
    Participant

    I would have a hard time taking Wick, Sosa, or Alvarez off the 40-man.

    #30598

    Bw52
    Participant

    Sosa and Alvarez have been injured or underperforming this year so that could be a reason for them to go unclaimed.Wick would be somewhat of a risk but I would chance him being taken.

    #30624

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    pads…. If we could trade Grichuk, Bader, O’Neill, Kelly and Piscotty for Justin Upton, that would help this club immeasurably.

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