Molina rest

This topic contains 100 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by  Brian Walton 2 days, 1 hour ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 101 total)
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  • #29467

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    We are never all going to agree about anything, but let’s please stop short of mandating what fans and/or followers of a team can and cannot be.

    #29470

    Bw52
    Participant

    Jager
    I have been a fan of the Cardinals for over 50 years and I will express my displeasure about the current team when I feel like it.If that bothers you then simply don’t read my posts.I realize a housecleaning probably won’t happen.It`s too extreme for current management and the management is afraid a housecleaning would cause a loss in revenue.Not everyone has your rosy outlook about this team so continue to enjoy the season your way.I will speak up about my way.

    #29509

    forsch31
    Participant

    BW52, you are one of posters who have commented that Pham should be traded and alluded to him playing over his head. I think a lot of people are overlooking that Pham is a very good hitter who may finally have his eyesight under control. Here are his career minor league splits for AA and AAA:

    AA: .298/.384/.506/.890
    AAA: .301/.376/.464/.840

    While it could be argued that he is hitting above those levels so he is “over his head”, I would argue that he is finally living up to his potential. That being said, I would be very happy to trade him if a team overpays.

    One last thing to consider is didn’t Pujols sometimes speak his mind like Molina or reinforce a disagreement with the team stance like Pham?

    #29519

    Bw52
    Participant

    Pham only had several years at each level to finally get his act together.Still he is a career .258 minor league hitter and I seriously doubt he averages 30 points higher in the majors.Freak year..aberration…..somebody had to have a good season since most everyone else is playing under normal standards.If he was doing this at 25 I would be a little more impressed.Phams fans will say he missed all that time due to injury….well you can’t help the team in the trainers room.I don’t dislike him I just am not getting enthused about a 29 year OF.

    #29527

    forsch31
    Participant

    You are glossing over the fact that he has performed up to those high numbers in the last 1/2 of his minor league career. The first few years don’t matter to me as long as he can put up big numbers at the higher levels consistently over time. He did that.

    His eyesight was the main reason for his early struggles and his early struggles in the majors. When his eyesight is good, he is great. He has showed that. It took him longer to get to here due to his eyesight and injuries.

    #29539

    PadsFS
    Participant

    Is Fryer still with the organization? They might as well call him up and put Kelly back in AAA for the month letting him play 3B and 1B along with CA.

    At least he can get some at-bats down there I guess. Then we can call him up after the Memphis playoffs.

    Or we might just have only Molina as the CA on the roster. Matheny can warm up the bullpen pitchers.

    #29540

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I believe Fryer is still a free agent.

    The Cardinals have yet to declare their plan for how the two will coexist for the next 3 1/3 years.

    #29546

    Brianpnoonan
    Participant

    realistically (as stated) they won’t.

    If they trade molina fans will be furious. If they trade kelly fans will be furious (you don’t trade the young gun… You just don’t).

    They do so much to avoid losing revenue that they’ve started to lose revenue due to stagnation.

    The eventual end of the conservative approach theyve taken is YEARS of stagnation and lower revenue. Compounded with yadis contract… Well we are going to suck… When everything screams we should be improving.

    What they’ve done for the last year or so is asinine. If you want to rebuild them get off your ass and do it. If you want to compete with an aging roster you have to spend real money not half ass it with players like fowler.

    Pick one. This half ass stuff does nobody any good.

    #29548

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    If they didn’t have a plan, why did the re-up on Molina’s contract? Did “THEY” somehow overlook the fact that they had the best catching prospect in MiLB and at the same time the oldest starting catcher in the League? This is what happens when you put one man’s hometown popularity over what’s best for the team. GOOD… now let mgmt. and the fans be hung out to dry.

    We fared better when “THEY” let pujols walk.

    #29549

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    I beg to differ… the Cubs, Brewers, Pirates and Reds along with their fans… will all be better off with an aging Cardinal roster.

    #29550

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I guess you could say they let Pujols walk since they chose to not try to top the Angels, but they tried very hard to keep him. IMO, it was more luck that Moreno made an irresponsible bid than credit to the Cardinals for having a solid plan. It was good fortune.

    The difference afterward is that they spent the Pujols money on veterans like Beltran and Berkman instead of placing all the pressure on prospects and young unproven players.

    Needless to say, not only do the current Cardinals not have a Pujols, they don’t even have a Beltran or Berkman. They can’t score enough runs to win consistently. To make matters worse, the leader of their team appears to be selfish and is battling with the manager and front office.

    #29556

    NJ315
    Participant

    I am disappointed in my fellow Puerto Rican. I know players have a hard time when aging but he is acting like an aging diva. I guess they should trade Kelly. It is not fair to him to have worked so hard to become a good catcher to be asked now to play other positions because Molina can’t handle the truth. Set Kelly free they owe him that much.

    #29557

    thejager
    Participant

    i totally agree…and while i responded to YOUR post it wasnt really about YOU…it was a general thing but i understand my place in the misunderstanding…so apologies

    what i meant was…when i read views of any fan of any team who thinks the only solution is to get rid of management, coaching, and 85% of the 25 man, i think anyone would see that as something that is pretty unrealistic… and if doing that is the only means for fixing the solution for those people, then i’d have to think that is a pretty unrealistic way to go about viewing the future

    and positing me and my opinion of everything going as “rosy” is pretty offensive…i have disagreed wit ha lot that has gone on…i have even hypothesized publicly about tearing it all down…probably more than anyone else… but when it comes to the end of the day i usually recognize my hypothesis’ as being unrealistic and things that won’t happen…and i accept that…and i recognize they rarely if ever will happen…so i dont let that fuel my anger and frustration…instead i look for other solutions or try to see what they are doing as positive in some way because i haev no control and hting just wears me out all the time…i’d rather be happy when i watch the games and think about the team…even if i disagree with decisions that are made…

    but IMO i cant be a good fan and look at my team and coaches and management and hate on them or be bitter with everything they do…i cant look at this team and not be a fan of them no matter how they are constructed or whatever they do…do i want a World Series win? yep…but do i accept that sometimes teams dont work out the way we thought they’d work out? yep

    i dont think anyone around here forecasted just how poor the team would hit…no one forecasted Gyorko’s great first half, or rise of DeJong…or even Pham… Yadi is about the only hitter who has lived up to expectations…well, maybe Grichuk too…as he is as unpredictable as ever…everyone else has been very low… you can’t blame management for Fowler, Piscotty, Diaz, and even Carpenter regressing so much….if it had been one or two…sure…but all o them? that’s just unlucky and unfair to judge them so poorly by….

    now the defense and baserunning problems early? yeah that’s a team problem…but low and behold they straightened all of that out pretty well and we have been pretty good defensively since the abysmal start…baserunning mistakes still rear their ugly heads from tiem to time…but not as much as early on…AND for both errors and baserunning problems…that is just part of the game so they never disappear entirely

    and by the way same goes for skipping my posts and opinions too if you don’t like them…but since we cant know what is written until we read it, it makes it pretty hard to ignore ….now responding…i get that and that is where my fault happened i admit that…

    #29559

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Gotta love this. Columnist Ortiz rips “amateur psychologists” and proceeds to offer his own equally amateur diagnosis – that the team needs MORE complaining like Molina. He completely ignores the fact Molina’s comments were NOT about making the team better, but were about his own playing time and taking what appeared to be a shot at his boss/coaches.

    How in the world could more of that be good for anyone?

    As far as Molina’s comments firing up the team, they are 3-4 since his #misinforming comment.

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jose-de-jesus-ortiz/ortiz-comfy-cards-need-that-molina-fire/article_9266279e-d70e-5df5-b62f-6b6f2ce64298.html

    #29560

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    I was o record as advocating trading Kelly ever since the Yadi extension a before Yadi’s petulance.

    You don’t waste a valuable asset by having him wither on the bench for 3 years. You don’t sign players for $20 million a year to have them around to coach someone. A player doesn’t sign for $20 million a year and expect to be treated differently than he was before in terms of playing time.

    #29561

    Brianpnoonan
    Participant

    I dont want them to go spend. I am also fully cognizant that they wont spend like that.

    Which is a good thing.

    That only leaves one path left — Which was my not very subtle point.

    #29564

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I was expecting an article like this – focusing on how the coaches are keeping Kelly learning, even though he is not playing.

    The best part is the headline, which proclaims that Molina and Matheny are running the drills, but when you actually read the article, all it says is that “Molina has been there to watch several of them.”

    Note there is no discussion of how and when Kelly will play in games and certainly no talk of other positions. A very here and now view.

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/molina-matheny-run-rookie-kelly-through-catching-drills/article_b4f6fb25-cc7d-56fa-b2f1-23d7fb18fada.html

    #29565

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Yes, I remember you saying that, CC. I was among those who hoped it could be worked out somehow, but the recent developments are putting that more and more into question.

    #29569

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    BW…. you commented on an after though. How about commenting on the main question.

    #29573

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I already said it appears they did/do not have a good plan for the two catchers to coexist, if that is your question, 14NyquisT. If I missed your point, please clarify. Thanks.

    #29761

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Mr. Kelly is wise beyond his years.

    #29791

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Even though I am in favor of trading Kelly, I am always overwhelmed by the poise and character of this young man.

    #29795

    bccran
    Participant

    Sometimes minor disagreements can be elevated to huge disagreements by the media. It helps sell papers.

    #29802

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    BW…. how could they not have a plan? Let’s just say they thought that they have some options. PLAN A. A four year contract for Molina would make you think that the best catching MiLB prospect will be traded. (BAD MOVE)… PLAN B might have been let Molina tutor Kelly and break him in as needed.(NOT HAPPENING). PLAN C well, I guess there is no plan C. Thus the calamity.

    By Molina creating unrest, the F.O. can’t trade Kelly and rely on Rosario to fill that spot. IMO, Molina has changed his mind about the next 3 1/2 years, possibly because of the downturn in the Cardinals present and its’ future 3 1/2 years. Is it just coincidental that Molina is part of the spiral downward?

    I said earlier…. ask for a list of teams that Molina would rather play for. Eat a sizable part of his contract and send him on his way. I lost a lot of admiration for Yadi…. what’s wrong with him?

    #43293

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Uh oh. Matheny picks at an old scab. In a long interview with Tim McKernan, his comments included this about Molina’s Instagram posts. (I highlighted the words, which could become the next “tired”.)

    “That’s their freedom in the country we live in. What we need to do then is step back, talk it out like grown men and figure out what the real issue is, how we can move forward and create something good from it.”

    McKernan tweeted a number of other Matheny quotes as well.
    https://twitter.com/tmckernan

    Here is the full audio interview.
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tim-mckernan-show/id1295303893?mt=2

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