Molina Extension

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This topic contains 61 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  thejager 2 months ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 62 total)
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  • #32584

    PadsFS
    Participant

    Can anyone shed light on why they don’t like Molina’s extension. I really don’t get it. This is a dude that is getting in the hall of fame as a Cardinal.

    #32589

    thejager
    Participant

    agreed… his productions is steady, and the drop in defense everyone seemed to have felt last year seems to be an anomaly as he seems to have regained his prowess this year

    yeah..we will be paying for an older player, but he is consistent, effective, a good model

    the argument that it is bad seems to me to come from folks who just see Yadi as a means of blocking Kelly… who for all his potential cant touch Yadi in any aspect of Yadi’s game yet

    #32595

    858booyah
    Participant

    Let’s revisit this towards the end of his contract.

    I didn’t mind giving him the money. He’s earned it and so far it appears to be a wise investment but he’s got 3 more years. I am predicting a slow decline and more of a timeshare with Kelly with Molina playing 1st about 1-2 days a week in the future.

    #32596

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    My take: 1. You dont pay for past production. 2. Does anyone think he wouldn’t have signed for that amount at the end of the year? 3. I dont think any other team would pay him near that amount (making it the opposite of a home town discount)

    Despite that, I dont have a big issue with it if it wasnt for the presence of Kelly. But you dont keep two starting level catchers just because one might get hurt.

    #32611

    Bw52
    Participant

    Cards overpaid and overlong with Molina.Defense is declining especially blocking low pitches and his throwing runners out is declining also (Its not all his fault he gets stolen on more often if the pitchers cant hold runners close but his arm cant cover for that anymore).A big issue i have with Yadier Molina is him dictating his playing time instead of listening t his manager who knows about catching.All older athletes are generally the last ones to realize that they aint what they used to be.IMHO a Molina playing 110-120 games at a higher level ( getting regular days off and rest) is better for the team than a tired slower less agile Molina trying to play 140 plus game.Cards have a rising potential star in Carson Kelly and with some more experience he should only get better.

    #32615

    mudville
    Participant

    I really like the fact that Molina came up through the organization, and will likely retire as a Cardinal. There’s something to be said for loyalty on both sides. He will be a part of Cardinal lore for generations to come. I thought is was classy for the organization to reach an agreement with him. And you can’t put a dollar amount to what he brings in terms of veteran presence. And besides all of that, seeing Yadi show up behind the plate at the All Star game this year wearing his gold chest protector and helmet was the coolest thing I’ve ever seen at happen at an All Star game.

    #32617

    858booyah
    Participant

    I haven’t seen anything with Kelly that give off the impression that he’s even a Yadi clone. More like the guy we saw in the other dugout this week. Austin Hedges actually more than anything else.

    Yes they overpaid him. He might have gotten an extra year from someone else but not the $20 million per. However I don’t get the gripe on PT. This team needs him more than ever. He’s the teams hit leader and RBI producer. So unless you’re complaining about him talking during the national anthem I don’t get what the bellyaching is about.

    #32619

    NJ315
    Participant

    Ahhh RBIs that all important stat. They overpaid. He has become a diva. They should have let him walk after the option year. We don’t know what Kelly is or is not. He was one of my favorite Cardinals but his attitude this year sucks. Accept the aging process…let the manager decide who plays where and when. Play it forward and be a mentor and a leader not a whiny aging player.

    #32620

    858booyah
    Participant

    Ahh the point of the game is to score more than your opponent isn’t it?

    So while we can piss and moan about guys who don’t get on base enough or have a slight decline in defensive production (Those 2 steals last night were on Lynn). The objective is to score more than your opponent. End of Story!

    So don’t treat me like i’m some sort of idiot pal! I buy into OPS and even some idiot stats like clusterluck. You’ll never get me to admit that scoring more runs isn’t the most important stat. Look at the standings! The teams that win the division usually have scored more runs and drive in RBI better than everyone else.

    #32624

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I join those in the wait and see crowd. The three years haven’t even started yet.

    #32625

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    No wait and see for me unless they trade Kelly. I’d be shocked if Molina earned that contract. His last 3 years wouldn’t make it worthwhile. I don’t see how 3 years of aging is going to help.that going forward. Add Kellu wasting away on the bench and the deficit gets worse.

    #32631

    Bw52
    Participant

    I am hoping Molina and Matheny can work out a agreeable plan for resting Molina and giving Kelly playing time.If Molina is truly a team guy then he should understand why and when he needs rest and Kelly needs some playing time.

    #32644

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    I don’t feel that Molina is a team-first guy anymore. He is more like a Molina-first guy now. What I see is declining work behind the plate, a lack of enthusiasm in St.Louis (we know he’s still capable as witnessed in that World Baseball thing were he was over-the-top enthusiastic playing for PR), and a guy that thinks he knows more than the manager and the F.O.. Molina was a favorite of mine for years but what he has demonstrated in the last two years has turned me off of him completely.

    As far as Kelly is concerned… how the heck is he supposed to live up to his potential when he is relegated to being a backup for a guy that doesn’t know that he is declining AND telling the manager when he should be playing? And exactly where is the tutelage Kelly should be getting from YM? Kelly moved quickly through the organization, worked hard to learn the catching trade and now gets a front row seat at Busch probably feeling ignored and actually cheated of the chance to show how he could be a genuine first-string C.

    Since the F.O. felt pressured into signing Molina for the ill-thought out and ill-timed three years, that sort of put the kibosh on Kelly’s progression. So if the F.O. felt that would wait and see how this scenario would play out, they should now see that they bit on Molina’s contract and the best thing to do now is to get some value for Kelly and send him somewhere that he can play, feel appreciated and become a potential all-star.

    I’ll betcha that in 2019 (maybe ’18) more of those that are gaga over Molina will be feeling sorry that we stuck with him over playing Kelly. p.s. Yadi, please run to first like a guy getting a big contract. You can run… you steal some bases don’t you? Or is that just Yadi being Yadi-first.

    #32647

    EuroWolf
    Participant

    Molina is in decline. You can tell because he’s lost a half step in his saunters to first base. I’ll never be okay with rewarding that with a contract of his magnitude — never, never, ever, ever. His HOF potential can certainly be debated either way, but it’s definitely not a given that he’s in based on current accomplishments.

    Having said all that, I’ve loved having Molina as a Cardinal. Everyone has flaws.

    #32657

    thejager
    Participant

    I love that people complain about Yadi not running full bore to 1b on groundouts yet they tell and scream about how Yadi how they hate that he doesn’t get enough rest.

    Can’t find a good argument about his production being down? Just go with the not running out pointless groundouts and you can feel better right?

    #32661

    EuroWolf
    Participant

    When you play, then play hard. When you can’t, then sit. I love when people complain about something so simple and obvious.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  EuroWolf.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  EuroWolf.
    #32672

    Bw52
    Participant

    Only a blind person would not see Molinas defense is declining especially on blocking low pitches and his arm cant make up for big jumps runners get like he used to.Father time waits for nobody .Molina included.He was always slow but now he is a guy running in molasses.Yeah he knocks in some runs ( he better considering MM persists in batting him 5th when he should be 7th.As much as i apprecciate what Molina has done his Diva attitude and sloppy defense have soured me on him and his dumb contract.I see more trouble between MM and Diva Molina in the future.

    #32681

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Hey jag… regarding Molina’s jogs, the point is, first that defenders know that they have extra time even if they bobble a ball – a first baseman knows the same if he should drop a throw there’s time to pick it up – those things happen…. so not “pointless” – jogging to first on a double-play grounder is flat out wrong – as far as stressing him physically you are joking right? – and probably most of all it sets a bad example for other Cards AND for young Card fans playing baseball who are told (rule #1) to run everything out. It just rubs some people the wrong way.

    It sets a bad precedent… should all the other players do the same on ground balls? Is that what you want this game to come to? I am really surprised that nothing has been done about it by people who should be doing something about it. Does he think that he is above RULE #1 and he can do as he pleases? That is what he is telling me. AND this gets back to the Yadi-first mind-set. Smokey Burgess ran out his grounders… Gus Triandos too. 🙂 Look it up.

    Count me as one who doesn’t appreciate the jogs… I wouldn’t even like seeing opponents doing it. It’s cringe-worthy.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  14NyquisT.
    #32695

    thejager
    Participant

    Catcher hitting stats

    2nd in average with more than 400ABs
    2nd hits
    4th runs
    2nd RBIs
    1st SBs
    10th HRs

    .993 fielding percentage

    Seems like his hitting is not just average compared. Seems like he is proving worth for his money

    #32710

    shakenbake McBride
    Participant

    2 for 3 today with a HR and 5 RBI’s…not bad for a tired old guy near the end of a long season.

    #32730

    thejager
    Participant

    4th in DEF WAR 1.4 (behind Barnhart, Pina, Castro)
    2.4 WAR (9th overall..4th in players with more than 400 ABs)

    maybe he had a bad year last year..recovering from hand injuries

    but this year he is right back up at the top of his defensive game and his offensive game is still shining brighter than anyone could have dreamed when he came up

    watch other games, watch other teams…the combination of offense and defense we have with Yadi is not matched anywhere else

    Posey is great too… but most the other great defenders have little to no stick…and their defense still might not be as good as Yadi…and the big boppers of Sanchez have problems with their gloves

    and they all run slow outside of Realmuto, but even Posey isnt quick either…they all jog to 1b

    #32732

    PadsFS
    Participant

    I also think that this season would have made for a huge distraction if we didn’t sign him beforehand. That mutual option would’ve got declined and I think Molina is undervalued here some with his work with pitchers. There’s really no way to calculate that value, but the team seems to think it’s high.

    #32737

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    And a huge distraction would have meant what? We would have languished in 3rd place in the division most of the year?

    These guys are pros. If that would have been a huge distraction, not a guy I want on my team.

    He may have declined the mutual option but I dont think he is getting 3/60 anywhere else.

    #32741

    PadsFS
    Participant

    So say we go into the off-season, would you be comfortable with Carson Kelly as our catcher or would you want them to re-sign Molina? If we would’ve needed to re-sign him anyway as I think we would need to, the money doesn’t really matter all that much to me.

    This assumes we pick up some piece this off-season to really help the team. I like our base, but it’s a high-floor, low-ceiling group.

    #32759

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    I would not want them to sign him for 3 years unless they were going to trade Kelly.

    It also comes down to the reality of $20 million spent on Molina is probably $20 million not spent elsewhere. Molina next 3 years or Kelly and Lance the next 3 years? I take Kelly and Lance. Does Molina keep you out of the Machado market after next year?

    Even so, do you think the risk of Molina getting hurt or starting his decline in 2017 warranted an off season signing that almost surely could have happened for the same price this off season?

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