February 2, 2018 at 6:30 pm #43044
Thought it might be interesting to have a discussion on possible rosters in 2018.
Here’s a stab at Memphis to start the thread –
C – Knizner
1B – Voit
2B – Schrock
SS – Munoz
3B – Wisdom
OF – O’Neill
OF – A. Garcia
OF – Mercado
RaveloFebruary 2, 2018 at 9:41 pm #43049
I would assume Arturo Reyes will be in Memphis unless he wins a bullpen spot in St. LouisFebruary 3, 2018 at 12:27 am #43053
Memphis should be really good again. Thanks for starting this thread a few thoughts:
1. Could see Mercado and/or Arozarena having to repeat AA to get their playing time.
2. Hope Gant is good enough to help the big league bullpen.
3. Two key members of 2017 Memphis team Valera and Mejia seem destine for utility roles.
4. Could see Helsley competing for a rotation spot at AAA.
5. Agree with above, expect to see Arturo Reyes on the AAA staff
6. The AA rotation will be loaded: Helsley, Hicks, Woodward, Fernandez, Jones
February 3, 2018 at 8:07 am #43060
- This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by vegasjim.
Where does 22 year old Conner Greene fit in? Memphis or Springfield? He’s already had 37 starts at the AA level.February 3, 2018 at 12:10 pm #43077
*****If one has to go it would be NMolina. Helsley to AA.
Lucas – 1st call up
*****Villabros at 21 goes to AA. Poncedeleon should wait in BP until he is needed as a starter. Mujica is released to trim roster.
Pena – 1st call up.
*****Knizner and Baron will be at AA. Jenner to AA as the upper level emergency floater.
Valera – 1st call up
*****Tovar and Caldwell get released to trim roster. Urias & Schrock to AA. Voit (STL).
Bader – 1st call up
*****Arozarena at AA.
February 3, 2018 at 12:44 pm #43082
- This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by 14NyquisT.
Thanks for sharing 14NyquisT. Usually I am the one defending myself. Now it is your turn! 😉
Here are my initial impression comments.
Unless Helsley has a really bad spring, I cannot see them holding him back. The only question may be when he moves to relief.
What happened to Jordan Schafer? Are you assuming Sherriff is in StL?
What would be the logic for placing Jeremy Martinez ahead of Knizner? So the journeyman Pena could get the catching at-bats at Memphis?!?
Why return to Schrock to Double-A over Edman? Why would Tovar get a second straight non-roster invitation only to be released? It could happen, but does not seem likely.
Why assume Voit in StL? That seems almost impossible with a four-man bench. Why would they carry him on the team ahead of one of the outfielders – Bader or O’Neill? That would make Martinez the only reserve OF. Also, why would they carry a 1B-only guy – especially when Carpenter, Gyorko and Martinez can all play 1B?
As a general comment, I can’t see blocking the top prospects with lesser players.February 3, 2018 at 12:49 pm #43085
You are right Brian. Barring an injury or trade there is no logical fit for Voit on the big league roster unless he hit like .400 in ST.
As for Conner Greene, a writer over at VEB compared him to Joe Kelly. I thought that was astute.February 3, 2018 at 1:12 pm #43092
Why did the Cards bring back Ravelo if they felt Voit was going to be there? I know Ravelo has been toying around in the OF so if he goes there who of the 4 Ofers does he replace?
Pena will be the 1st catcher up to STL. Is he going to back up Knizner at AAA? I think he starts at Memphis with JeMartinez backing him up, Martinez has some AAA experience from last season including the play-offs and the AAA championship game. He also caught that 2nd game of the PCL championship game when Herget struck out 18.
Knizner with get more playing time at Springfield which will be more helpful in the long run, with Baron backing him up.
Schrock is a 2nd base only guy. Edman can play SS, 2B, and 3B. You may be right though. We’ll see how ST goes. I mean you’ll see how ST goes.
I have Sherriff in STL, Schafer is a ghost… not too much faith in him… P or OF.
I must admit that I used the Memphis roster in the matrix here as a guideline…. mas o menos. No Voit, no Knizner, no Schrock, no Sherriff and no Schafer. Hmmmm.
I totally get your last point!!
February 3, 2018 at 1:12 pm #43094
- This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by 14NyquisT.
I am not for it, but I can see a path where they keep Voit as a pinch hitter in STL and let Bader play everyday at AAA knowing he is a phone call away if someone goes down for a period of time. With 3 starting OFs who have played CF they could just keep Martinez around for the start on someone’s occasional day off.
From winter warmup sound like the want 13 man staff if you asked me the bench 4 guys I would list Kelly, Garcia, Martinez either or of Voit/Bader
February 3, 2018 at 1:20 pm #43100
- This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by vegasjim.
When all is said and done, I cannot see them having traded Grichuk to open up a roster spot for Voit. I do not think that makes the Cardinals a better team, but I get that others see it differently. I just don’t agree with you. 😉February 3, 2018 at 1:20 pm #43101
They could possibly do that Vegas but I think Bader brings more versatility than Voit. I think Voit should be trade bait.February 3, 2018 at 1:26 pm #43103
The idea of trading Voit sort of reminds me of the John Gall/Nick Stavinoha discussions from the old days. Voit has more value being ready in Memphis, IMO.
You are right about Ravelo being around, too. I think he has a better chance of playing in the OF than Voit. The PCL also often gets to use a DH, too.February 3, 2018 at 1:28 pm #43105
Sorry, but I do not see how anyone could look at the 2017 seasons of Martinez and Knizner and justify the former over the latter. Martinez went weeks without an extra base hit while Knizner was our Player of the Year for the entire system while playing most of the season at a higher level than Martinez.
Pena, a journeyman, doesn’t need to play regularly, the best prospect does. That is clearly Knizner. No doubt in my mind about that. Pena is as disposable as Fryer, Rosario, McKenry, Easley and all the other depth catchers who come and go.February 3, 2018 at 1:34 pm #43106
Doesn’t anyone look at the Matrix?
Knizner will be in Memphis soon enough. Starts out at Springfield. Bader starts out in Memphis.
The Grichuk move, IMO has little to do with Voit v. Bader. Look what we got back too…. Leone and Greene.
Grichuk became too controversial on the negative side.February 3, 2018 at 1:38 pm #43107
To clarify, the Matrix does not represent projections or opinions – it reflects actual rosters as last season ended. That is why all of the September call-ups from Memphis are still in St. Louis, for example.
So one has to be careful to interpret the Matrix. St. Louis as presented has 31 players. Then there are players like Martinez who are at the wrong levels for their experience because they were late backfills for the call-ups to St. Louis.
In the case of new players, they are placed at the level they finished last season, wherever they were.
P.S. I don’t get the irrational love for Martinez. There is no way he (or any other prospect) is going to skip over Double-A – unless the Cards have given up on him as a prospect and are using him as roster filler. Despite his lost 2017 at Palm Beach, I do not think that is the case.
February 3, 2018 at 1:49 pm #43110
- This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by Brian Walton.
I was not analyzing the Grichuk trade and did not mean to imply that had anything do to with Voit. I am simply looking at the 25-man roster. Like I said, when all is said and done, Grichuk comes off and Voit goes on in your scenario. You can disagree, but I consider that a step down.February 3, 2018 at 3:03 pm #43114
Voit and JMart seem to be duplicate roster pieces. JMart has the edge because he has been more productive and can play more than one position. Barring injuries or trades I just don’t see much of a future for Voit in St. Louis unless he blossoms late and puts up ridiculous numbers in Memphis.February 3, 2018 at 3:18 pm #43115
I don’t think Voit has a place on the St. Louis roster. I like Ravelo a lot, but he may lose out to Voit as the Memphis starting first baseman because Voit has displayed more power.February 3, 2018 at 4:58 pm #43127
bccran, I hope there will be room for both Voit and Ravelo on the Memphis roster. Between the fourth outfielder, backup 1B and DH, there could be enough at-bats for Ravelo. And you never know, if Martinez is injured, for example, Voit could be the next man up.
Coincidentally, I just posted a winter ball update for members and Ravelo hit very well all winter long, including the playoffs.
As have I said before, too much depth is a very rare and pleasant problem to have. Rushing to trade away depth without clearly filling other needs in the process can backfire, though we can all see some potential roster issues ahead.February 3, 2018 at 7:19 pm #43129
I think the late Martinez promotion to Memphis says they see him as a prospect and offered a way to salvage a lost season.
Perhaps it’s speaks to Jenner’s status, also.
After a flurry of trades and rule 5 picks, the Sprngfield outfield could have a few names we haven’t been discussing.February 3, 2018 at 8:01 pm #43130
Agree, NigelT, Jenner is a roster filler guy, not a prospect. We are not seeing him on the big league spring training camp invitee list, for example.
My guess is that Martinez appealed to them for the big game mentioned above since he had caught Helsley regularly at PB. And if he was showing some life at the plate, all the better. I also suspect they wanted Knizner to rest up for the AFL rather than go from Springfield to Memphis, then to Jupiter, then to Arizona, all in September.
Giving Martinez a chance to salvage something from 2017 was a good idea. However, too much is being read into it in terms of 2018. The late season fill in assignment does not mean Martinez is close to being ready for Memphis. Show me a Cards prospect hitter at any position who was promoted to Triple-A for the long haul with just three career Double-A plate appearances. Especially a guy who was pushed over a level this last year and it clearly hurt him.
Martinez’ OPS for the season was .485. Only two hitters in the system with at least 100 at-bats in 2017 had a lower OPS – and one of them was released (Austin Wilson). The other is J.D. Murders. Hopefully Martinez will get it going at Springfield this year.February 3, 2018 at 10:34 pm #43131
Springfield, Palm Beach and Peoria all used 6-man rotations last year. Is there any chance on Memphis using a 6-man rotation considering the amount of talent in the upper levels?February 3, 2018 at 11:39 pm #43133
Sure, there is always a chance. The teams that do have six usually drop down to five in a month or so, though.February 3, 2018 at 11:52 pm #43134
But that’s largely due to injury.February 4, 2018 at 11:05 am #43147
as the AAA rotation. Gant could beat out Sherriff for the 8th spot in the STL bullpen. Poncedeleon may not be ready. Helsley could start the year in AA. Pearce could as well after his abysmal 2017 AAA performance.
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