Matheny as manager

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This topic contains 622 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by  Brian Walton 5 days, 8 hours ago.

Viewing 23 posts - 601 through 623 (of 623 total)
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  • #36752

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I don’t see NTC as that big of a deal. Leake had one, too. They probably had to offer it to be competitive with other teams. No matter what, all it takes is money to make it go away.

    #36757

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Makes no sense to pay what is percieved as “top dollar” and also give NTC.

    #36769

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    We have no way of knowing the details of other offers and exactly what is competitive and what is not. I am just suggesting that some put greater weight on NTC than others.

    #36854

    SoonerinNC
    Participant

    I was not excited by the Leake and Cecil deals but not against them. I didn’t want Fowler because I didn’t think he was good enough defensively.

    If I look at our situation I see too many corner outfielders and infielders with none a real impact bat with Pham being the closest. Also a loaded minor league system and too many “prospects” fading and we get next to nothing for them when we get rid of them. The O’Neill for Marco deal an exception. San Diego seems so hot for our prospects, maybe we should trade a few of them for players we want.

    I am generally opposed to trading young prospects for older players. That is how you lose guys like Bagwell, Rizzo, and Smoltz. But the results are that we got next to nothing for the players we acquired from the outside in 2017. I don’t think we have given up a lot over Mo’s tenure but if I have a criticism of Mo it that maybe he has been a bit conservative rather than go after guys like Verlander who played a big role in the Astros winning the AL championship. And I think he has had some bad luck.

    Like many others I am waiting to see if anything changes under Giersh.

    #36861

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Thanks for sharing your perspective, Sooner. After reading it, the question that comes to mind is how many future Bagwells or Smoltzes are in the system. (As a point of reference, the last sure-fire Hall of Famer developed by the Cardinals came up 16 years ago. 13 years ago if you favor Molina, so they don’t come along often.)

    Of course, we won’t know until years later, but I hope the fear of making a low-odds mistake in mis-identifying a future Hall of Famer right under their noses does not keep them from taking a few chances. Current course and speed isn’t working.

    When is the last time the Cards made a mistake in trading away a top-ranked prospect who became even an impact MLB player? The names that come to mind are guys like Wallace, Cox, Kaminsky, Ramsey and Tilson. Luke Gregerson may be as close as any and that is not too bad at all.

    And even if Wallace, say, had become a star, so what? The Cardinals had Matt Holliday!

    #36878

    SoonerinNC
    Participant

    Obviously the trick is to know if you have a Bagwell, Smoltz, et.al. as well as who do we have that other teams value more than we do. Jockkety had a knack for that. A lot of the minor leaguers he gave up for the likes of Woody Williams didn’t get more than a cup of coffee in the majors. About the only exception was Jack Wilson for Jason Christianson.

    There were a lot of questions during the season as to who would be buyers and sellers as the trade deadline approached. Detroit and the White Sox were obvious and just as obvious we decided to be neither buyers or sellers in spite of having a good number of outfielding and pitching prospects although we did pick up Nicacio for a 20th range prospect after the deadline.

    Meanwhile most of the other post season contenders picked up key players mostly for minor league talent. Dodgers (Darvish, Watson), Yankees (Frazier, Gray, Robertson, Kahnle) DBacks (Martinez) Nationals (Kintzler, Madson, Kendrick, Doolittle), Astros (Liriano, Verlander), Rockies (Lucroy), Red Sox (Eduardo Nunez) Brewers (Swarzak) Cubs (Quintana, Avila, Justin Wilson) Indians (Joe Smith). Also the Rays, Royals and Angles were active trying for the final AL wild card spot.

    #36893

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Third 2017 playoff team is changing managers with Joe Girardi out in New York, following Red Sox and Nationals. He always had winning records in 10 years with the Yankees, finishing a total of 200 games over .500 at 910-710 (.562).

    Seems a growing trend is that just having a winning record and making the post-season are not necessarily enough.

    Very similar totals for Matheny, who in six years is at .560 overall, 544-428. Though MM’s post-season record is worse, .488 to .538 for Girardi. And the latter has one World Series championship.

    Both managers followed Hall of Famers, with Girardi having replaced Joe Torre. And of course, both are ex-Cardinals catchers.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  Brian Walton.
    #36895

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Per Jon Heyman, the analytics trend continues.

    “yankees may interview people on the inside but are likely to find their next manager outside the organization. will want analytical guy.”

    #36897

    Onyxgem
    Participant

    Teams who want to win it all try to make changes to do so, teams who don’t care if they win it all or not continue to go down the drain they are going donwn

    #36898
    BlackHillsCard
    BlackHillsCard
    Participant

    And the only thing I keep hearing about is Mathenys wining record, even from Mo. Sad.

    #36929
    bicyclemike
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    If St. Louis struggles in the first half next year and Girardi is available, I wonder if the club would consider the change.

    But if Joe G is not an analytics guy, then probably not.

    #36934

    thejager
    Participant

    Mike…i dont think Girardi will last long on the open market if he wants to coach this year…if not…then perhaps that scenario coudl play out…

    I think Oquendo would get the gig if MM bowed out early…he did interview for the job back when MM was hired right? I also think Clapp might get a shot as well

    #36941

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Way too early to say, but my guess is that the target would be like the pitching coach – a respected and experienced outside manager.

    When the Cubs decided on their guy, they bought him out of his contract with his then-current team and let their incumbent manager go with time and money remaining on his deal. Not suggesting the Cards would do that, but pointing out another example of aggressive action by what is now the clear division leader.

    #36943

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Just curious, what is MM’s reputation for embracing or not embracing analytics?

    #37264

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Bernie Miklasz writes that Matheny must embrace analytics more without being clear about his past record in the area.

    https://www.101sports.com/2017/11/03/baseball-changes-new-way-managing-will-bill-dewitts-experiment-pay-off/

    #37277

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster
    #37299

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Hiring analytic-minded coaches is a good start for the St. Louis Cardinals, but they will also need plans to get the information in the heads and hearts of their players.

    http://thecardinalnation.com/how-will-the-cardinals-deliver-data-to-the-players/

    #38015

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    This column from the Boston Globe’s Nick Cafardo is interesting in several aspects. One is that he mentions a growing feeling that first-time managers are the trend in MLB, while “…general managers are now taking on bigger roles and managers are merely there to communicate with the players…”

    He also outlines many MLB manager and coaching salaries as well as typical ranges by position.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2017/11/18/are-big-money-managers-being-minimized/n7vp5ctp1kyijwJMSZ0CgM/story.html

    #38567

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    With Aaron Boone’s hiring by the Yankees, ESPN notes this:

    Aaron Boone will be the 9th active manager at the helm of a team he played for: Aaron Boone (NYY) Kevin Cash (TB) Alex Cora (BOS) Craig Counsell (MIL) Terry Francona (CLE) Dave Martinez (WSH) Mike Matheny (STL) Paul Molitor (MIN) Dave Roberts (LAD)

    https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/936965690417864704

    #42615

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Matheny is back on the internet after what appears to be a three-year absence.

    http://mikematheny.com/mikes-blog/2018-baseball-here

    #43956

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Bernie is all over Matheny for a perceived dig at Carlos Martinez.

    https://www.101sports.com/2018/02/16/mike-matheny-look-mirror-taking-digs-carlos-martinez/

    Personally, I am not buzzed about a mid-40’s guy calling a mid-20’s guy, “kid”. My issue is with Matheny taking Martinez to task publicly on his game preparation. If he has an issue, it should not be in the news on the first days of camp. I would make it priority #1 for Maddux to try to get through to Martinez first and only go public as a last resort – if they think shaming would actually work as a positive motivator.

    Otherwise, you have to ask yourself, “Why did Matheny think it is a good idea to talk down his best pitcher?” And remember, this is from a man whose leadership ability is supposedly one of his strengths.

    I am not big on the “Mike’s guys” and “not Mike’s guys” story line, but it sure seems like Carlos is not. He is a guy I would want on my side if I was the manager.

    #43967

    Onyxgem
    Participant

    Matheny is an idiot and he keeps showing people what a clown he really is

    #43969

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Surely you have more to offer than personal insults. Or why comment at all?

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