Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › Matheny as manager – fired 7/14
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September 24, 2017 at 1:57 pm #33987NJ315Participant
Matheny shields his players from the negativity that comes from losing and takes that on himself letting his players worry only about playing. Making a statement of having his players back make him and strong leader. I wish he would translate that into showing those qualities during in game decisions. Overall he is too stubborn to learn and that will be his undoing.
September 24, 2017 at 2:03 pm #33989bccranParticipantThat’s a very interesting and fair assessment, NJ. Thanks for bringing it forward.
September 24, 2017 at 2:36 pm #33998He’s doing a bang up job today managing his bullpen.
September 24, 2017 at 2:44 pm #33999bccranParticipantHe never should have thrown those gopher balls.
September 24, 2017 at 2:47 pm #34001Like bringing in Oh in a 1-1 game with a week to go? Stand up job my Matheny.
September 24, 2017 at 2:58 pm #34004bccranParticipantYour turn, BlackHills. What are Mike Matheny’s strengths and weaknesses as a manager?
September 24, 2017 at 7:45 pm #34036Tell me Black Hills; If Oh had set them down 1-2-3 would you have said Matheny made the right choice? Who hasn’t been torched in our bullpen lately? Hard to say who has been the most effective. Maybe Lyons and Brebbia. But if they are the best are you going to bring them in in the middle of a 1-1 game. Maybe Alcantara who has been effective since giving up a homer to the first major league batter he faced. But if it went bad you would be the first to say that he shouldn’t have exposed him that way.
Still everyone dealing with generalities.
Matheny does a poor job managing the bullpen. How so
He is too stubborn to learn; learn what he should do different. What should it be. When did he make a stubborn decision.
I’m still not sure how I would rate Matheny. He has had a winning team each year and I don’t buy the superior talent bit. He had just lost arguably the best power hitter in Cardinal history and did OK. He has had terrible luck (if it is luck) with pitcher injuries. He hasn’t had a decent #3 and #4 hitter for some time. Maybe due to him being so stubborn.
He is certainly not at the Herzog level yet. Herzog was a keen judge of talent (and i think Matheny is not bad here) and did a great job of using players at the right time even through sending them to the minors to get their timing back. I think was superior tactically which is hard for me to judge but obviously not to others. LaRussa rarely made a decision that was not computer driven but who am I to criticize. The guy has won the third most games in major league history. He was almost #2 (John McGraw) and #1 (Connie Mack) was the owner of the team he managed. LaRussa was superior in identifying the needed roles to win and somehow got pretty good players into those roles.
September 24, 2017 at 7:52 pm #34037I have been on the fence about Matheny. He just tipped me over against him with his comment that he would support players who protest during the national anthem.
September 24, 2017 at 8:31 pm #34041How about Oh has been a bad pitcher for most of the season so why bring him into that situation? Because MM falls in love with players (ie Allen Craig) and doesn’t realize when it’s time to use them or not use them. Not that complicated but MM isn’t that smart and looking at some his fanboys the same can be said about them.
September 24, 2017 at 9:19 pm #34048bccranParticipantHuge series this week against the Cubs. Let’s get behind the Cards in full support and hope for some loses by the Brewers and the Rockies.
September 24, 2017 at 10:10 pm #34057I’m with you CC. Political statements don’t belong on the field.
September 24, 2017 at 10:25 pm #34058bccranParticipantHe may go the way of a former Mizzou football coach if he’s not careful.
September 25, 2017 at 8:31 am #34065DeWitt Q-&-A: Matheny is ‘right guy to lead us into the future’
September 25, 2017 at 8:53 am #34067bccranParticipantInteresting comments about bullpens.
September 25, 2017 at 9:38 am #34079DeWitt has been very clear that Matheny will be our manager for the foreseeable future so I don’t know why we continue to debate it. Let’s focus our attention on more important matters like how Mo and Girsch are going to revamp this team this winter so we can finally take down the stinking Cubs!
September 25, 2017 at 10:25 am #34085bccranParticipantIt will be an interesting case study in how a number of present Cardinals are viewed. Right now, they probably have Fowler and Pham penciled into the OF for 2018. That leaves one Of slot open. With
Piscotty (who they are still high on), Grichuk, Martinez, Bader, O’Neill, Adolis Garcia, Sierra, Mercado, and Arozarena in the organization, will they go outside for a big OF bat who will require (or already has) a long term contract? Or will they take a look at a possibly brittle Gyorko who should probably be a super sub anyway and not a starter, and go outside for a big 3B bat. My guess is the latter.September 25, 2017 at 11:08 am #34095That is really to bad that Dimwitt is to stupid to see how big of an issue MM is as the head coach, i guess if he wants to keep being an average team go ahead and keep a below average manager around.
September 25, 2017 at 11:20 am #34096It wont matter what moves are made if MM is still the manager. I didn’t the like the hire from Day 1 and every single year MM defends my original view of him.
September 25, 2017 at 12:12 pm #34099bccranParticipantI respect the Dewitt Family’s experience and baseball acumen. It goes all the way back to Bill Dewitt Jr.’s father who was a protégé of Branch Rickey. The trail leads from the Cardinals to the Browns to the Orioles to the Reds and back to the Cardinals of today. I’ll have to remain in the position of respecting Bill Dewitt Jr’s decisions. His track record speaks for itself, and he’s one of the most respected executives in Major League Baseball.
September 25, 2017 at 12:40 pm #34104His comment about the bullpen was interesting. I figured MM wouldn’t be fired before he started his new 3 year contract in 2018. If he misses the playoffs next year for the 3rd straight season I think it would be safe to assume Matheny would be on the hot seat.
September 25, 2017 at 1:09 pm #34106bccranParticipantBH – Agree 100% regarding your hot seat comment if he misses the playoff both this year and next.
September 25, 2017 at 2:36 pm #34124If Matheny lasts that long and actually misses the playoffs three straight years he shouldn’t be on the hot seat he should be fired…actually if we miss this year he should be fired along with Mo and Girsch or whatever his name is…
September 25, 2017 at 3:11 pm #34130bccranParticipantLogan Trump?
September 25, 2017 at 3:19 pm #34132Interesting data here. It suggests to me that injuries were not a major factor for the Cards this year in comparison to their peers. Their number of games lost is among the bottom half-dozen teams. And the quality of the players who were out (denoted by the size of the circle) looks to be no more than middle of the pack.
https://twitter.com/ManGamesLostMLB/status/912409419337670656/photo/1
September 25, 2017 at 3:23 pm #34134bccran
Participant
Instead of opinions, let’s look at the changing face of the Cardinals roster over the past number of years and see what it tells us –
2010 –
2011 – Pujols/Holliday/Berkman/Rasmus/Molina/Freese/Theriot/Schumaker
2012 – Holliday/Beltran/Craig/Molina/Freese/Descalso/Furcal/Jay
2013 – Holliday/Beltran/Carpenter/Craig/Freese/Molina/Kozma/Jay
2014 – Holliday/Peralta/Craig/Jay/Wong/Adams/Molina/Carpenter
2015 – Holliday/Peralta/Carpenter/Reynolds/Wong/Bourjos/Heyward/Molina
2016 – Holliday(injured)/Peralta(injured)/Adams/Wong/Molina/Diaz/Grichuk/Piscotty
2017 – DeJong/Carpenter/Molina/Wong/Gyorko/Pham/Fowler/PiscottyIn an objective way, please notice the shift. There’s simply no experienced big bat meat in the middle of the lineup anymore. The failures of Grichuk and Piscotty as well as Adams have been monumental. Risks that haven’t paid off. We’ve gone from Pujols/Holliday/Berkman to (last night) Fowler/Martinez/Molina.
Matheny doesn’t have a top tier lineup like the Cubs, Nationals, Dodgers, Diamondbacks, Red Sox, Indians, Astros, etc. That’s why I tend to be less harsh than other posters.
BA OPS HR Runs ERA RA Wins
2010 0.263 0.733 150 736 3.57 641 86
2011 0.273 0.766 162 762 3.74 692 90
2012 0.271 0.759 159 765 3.71 648 88
2013 0.269 0.733 125 783 3.42 596 97
2014 0.253 0.689 105 619 3.50 603 90
2015 0.253 0.716 137 647 2.94 525 100
2016 0.255 0.767 225 779 4.08 712 86
2017 0.260 0.767 186 737 3.95 660Notice our runs scored went up in 2012 and again in 2013 without Pujols.
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