Matheny as manager – fired 7/14

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  • #33987
    NJ315
    Participant

    Matheny shields his players from the negativity that comes from losing and takes that on himself letting his players worry only about playing. Making a statement of having his players back make him and strong leader. I wish he would translate that into showing those qualities during in game decisions. Overall he is too stubborn to learn and that will be his undoing.

    #33989
    bccran
    Participant

    That’s a very interesting and fair assessment, NJ. Thanks for bringing it forward.

    #33998
    858booyah
    Participant

    Free

    He’s doing a bang up job today managing his bullpen.

    #33999
    bccran
    Participant

    He never should have thrown those gopher balls.

    #34001
    BlackHillsCard
    Participant

    Free

    Like bringing in Oh in a 1-1 game with a week to go? Stand up job my Matheny.

    #34004
    bccran
    Participant

    Your turn, BlackHills. What are Mike Matheny’s strengths and weaknesses as a manager?

    #34036
    SoonerinNC
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Tell me Black Hills; If Oh had set them down 1-2-3 would you have said Matheny made the right choice? Who hasn’t been torched in our bullpen lately? Hard to say who has been the most effective. Maybe Lyons and Brebbia. But if they are the best are you going to bring them in in the middle of a 1-1 game. Maybe Alcantara who has been effective since giving up a homer to the first major league batter he faced. But if it went bad you would be the first to say that he shouldn’t have exposed him that way.

    Still everyone dealing with generalities.

    Matheny does a poor job managing the bullpen. How so

    He is too stubborn to learn; learn what he should do different. What should it be. When did he make a stubborn decision.

    I’m still not sure how I would rate Matheny. He has had a winning team each year and I don’t buy the superior talent bit. He had just lost arguably the best power hitter in Cardinal history and did OK. He has had terrible luck (if it is luck) with pitcher injuries. He hasn’t had a decent #3 and #4 hitter for some time. Maybe due to him being so stubborn.

    He is certainly not at the Herzog level yet. Herzog was a keen judge of talent (and i think Matheny is not bad here) and did a great job of using players at the right time even through sending them to the minors to get their timing back. I think was superior tactically which is hard for me to judge but obviously not to others. LaRussa rarely made a decision that was not computer driven but who am I to criticize. The guy has won the third most games in major league history. He was almost #2 (John McGraw) and #1 (Connie Mack) was the owner of the team he managed. LaRussa was superior in identifying the needed roles to win and somehow got pretty good players into those roles.

    #34037
    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Paid - Monthly

    I have been on the fence about Matheny. He just tipped me over against him with his comment that he would support players who protest during the national anthem.

    #34041
    BlackHillsCard
    Participant

    Free

    How about Oh has been a bad pitcher for most of the season so why bring him into that situation? Because MM falls in love with players (ie Allen Craig) and doesn’t realize when it’s time to use them or not use them. Not that complicated but MM isn’t that smart and looking at some his fanboys the same can be said about them.

    #34048
    bccran
    Participant

    Huge series this week against the Cubs. Let’s get behind the Cards in full support and hope for some loses by the Brewers and the Rockies.

    #34057
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I’m with you CC. Political statements don’t belong on the field.

    #34058
    bccran
    Participant

    He may go the way of a former Mizzou football coach if he’s not careful.

    #34065
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual
    #34067
    bccran
    Participant

    Interesting comments about bullpens.

    #34079
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    DeWitt has been very clear that Matheny will be our manager for the foreseeable future so I don’t know why we continue to debate it. Let’s focus our attention on more important matters like how Mo and Girsch are going to revamp this team this winter so we can finally take down the stinking Cubs!

    #34085
    bccran
    Participant

    It will be an interesting case study in how a number of present Cardinals are viewed. Right now, they probably have Fowler and Pham penciled into the OF for 2018. That leaves one Of slot open. With
    Piscotty (who they are still high on), Grichuk, Martinez, Bader, O’Neill, Adolis Garcia, Sierra, Mercado, and Arozarena in the organization, will they go outside for a big OF bat who will require (or already has) a long term contract? Or will they take a look at a possibly brittle Gyorko who should probably be a super sub anyway and not a starter, and go outside for a big 3B bat. My guess is the latter.

    #34095
    Onyxgem
    Participant

    Free

    That is really to bad that Dimwitt is to stupid to see how big of an issue MM is as the head coach, i guess if he wants to keep being an average team go ahead and keep a below average manager around.

    #34096
    BlackHillsCard
    Participant

    Free

    It wont matter what moves are made if MM is still the manager. I didn’t the like the hire from Day 1 and every single year MM defends my original view of him.

    #34099
    bccran
    Participant

    I respect the Dewitt Family’s experience and baseball acumen. It goes all the way back to Bill Dewitt Jr.’s father who was a protégé of Branch Rickey. The trail leads from the Cardinals to the Browns to the Orioles to the Reds and back to the Cardinals of today. I’ll have to remain in the position of respecting Bill Dewitt Jr’s decisions. His track record speaks for itself, and he’s one of the most respected executives in Major League Baseball.

    #34104
    BlackHillsCard
    Participant

    Free

    His comment about the bullpen was interesting. I figured MM wouldn’t be fired before he started his new 3 year contract in 2018. If he misses the playoffs next year for the 3rd straight season I think it would be safe to assume Matheny would be on the hot seat.

    #34106
    bccran
    Participant

    BH – Agree 100% regarding your hot seat comment if he misses the playoff both this year and next.

    #34124
    LoganAlpha30X7
    Participant

    Free

    If Matheny lasts that long and actually misses the playoffs three straight years he shouldn’t be on the hot seat he should be fired…actually if we miss this year he should be fired along with Mo and Girsch or whatever his name is…

    #34130
    bccran
    Participant

    Logan Trump?

    #34132
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Interesting data here. It suggests to me that injuries were not a major factor for the Cards this year in comparison to their peers. Their number of games lost is among the bottom half-dozen teams. And the quality of the players who were out (denoted by the size of the circle) looks to be no more than middle of the pack.

    https://twitter.com/ManGamesLostMLB/status/912409419337670656/photo/1

    #34134
    forsch31
    Participant

    Free

    bccran

    Participant

    Instead of opinions, let’s look at the changing face of the Cardinals roster over the past number of years and see what it tells us –

    2010 –
    2011 – Pujols/Holliday/Berkman/Rasmus/Molina/Freese/Theriot/Schumaker
    2012 – Holliday/Beltran/Craig/Molina/Freese/Descalso/Furcal/Jay
    2013 – Holliday/Beltran/Carpenter/Craig/Freese/Molina/Kozma/Jay
    2014 – Holliday/Peralta/Craig/Jay/Wong/Adams/Molina/Carpenter
    2015 – Holliday/Peralta/Carpenter/Reynolds/Wong/Bourjos/Heyward/Molina
    2016 – Holliday(injured)/Peralta(injured)/Adams/Wong/Molina/Diaz/Grichuk/Piscotty
    2017 – DeJong/Carpenter/Molina/Wong/Gyorko/Pham/Fowler/Piscotty

    In an objective way, please notice the shift. There’s simply no experienced big bat meat in the middle of the lineup anymore. The failures of Grichuk and Piscotty as well as Adams have been monumental. Risks that haven’t paid off. We’ve gone from Pujols/Holliday/Berkman to (last night) Fowler/Martinez/Molina.

    Matheny doesn’t have a top tier lineup like the Cubs, Nationals, Dodgers, Diamondbacks, Red Sox, Indians, Astros, etc. That’s why I tend to be less harsh than other posters.

    BA OPS HR Runs ERA RA Wins
    2010 0.263 0.733 150 736 3.57 641 86
    2011 0.273 0.766 162 762 3.74 692 90
    2012 0.271 0.759 159 765 3.71 648 88
    2013 0.269 0.733 125 783 3.42 596 97
    2014 0.253 0.689 105 619 3.50 603 90
    2015 0.253 0.716 137 647 2.94 525 100
    2016 0.255 0.767 225 779 4.08 712 86
    2017 0.260 0.767 186 737 3.95 660

    Notice our runs scored went up in 2012 and again in 2013 without Pujols.

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