Giancarlo Stanton thread

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This topic contains 617 replies, has 37 voices, and was last updated by  mudville 2 months ago.

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  • #37666

    SoonerinNC
    Participant

    This a window of opportunity for Giersch to make a huge difference in this team. He has the prospects, possibly the best any other suitor has to offer and the payroll room. We may have to give up either Martinez or Reyes but the Marlins would probably settle for Weaver who would give them longer control than on Martinez. We have a wide choice of outfielders to replace Stanton.

    I believe that Stanton could be convinced to play in St. Louis. A baseball star in St. Louis is comparable to a rock star anywhere else.

    I think the Marlins would require Devers or Benintendi from the Red Sox and I doubt the Red Sox would go there.

    #37674

    PadsFS
    Participant

    I would think the team surrounding him would be more appealing than the city itself. Is there a better 1-2-3 lineup out there to bat behind other than Carpenter, Fowler, and Pham OBP-wise?

    They are at .384, .363, and .411 in 2017 after .380, .393, and .324 in 2016. That’s a lot of RBIs. The Giants only have Posey with anything close to that.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  PadsFS.
    #37683

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Step back for a minute. Why in the world would Stanton voluntarily leave Miami for Philly – based on a bunch of maybes? I mean, it is not zero chance, but the odds are so low I can’t believe it is getting this much conversation.

    As a reminder of what has been written many times already, this is from the Miami Herald from yesterday (Saturday):

    “…He has stated only that he would like to be part of a winning team — something he’s never experienced in his eight seasons with the Marlins — and doesn’t wish to be part of a rebuild…”

    Seems pretty darned clear to me, as that came from Stanton directly.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/fish-bytes/article184112096.html

    #37691

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    The Cardinals are “determined” in their pursuit of Stanton, writes D. Goold. Still now word if Stanton would accept a trade to STL, even if worked out, though.

    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinals-need-to-get-better-a-process-that-begins-at/article_0297ef75-2917-508a-a9c2-ccc6e9661483.html

    #37700

    Onyxgem
    Participant

    If the Cards don’t get Martinez or Stanton as they as of right now are the only 2 BIG bat options out there things are going to get real UGLY for the cards front office, and it should!

    #37701

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick polled 40 MLB execs for their predictions on major off-season moves. Cards were #1 destination named for Stanton.

    http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21385913/hot-stove-survey-stanton-st-louis-otani-bronx-insiders-weigh-winter

    #37702

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    BW… I copied and pasted this small part of the story. You beat me by about 2 minutes.

    1. Will Giancarlo Stanton be traded this offseason? If so, where?

    Responses: Yes, 32; No, 7; No opinion, 1

    Most likely destination: Cardinals 10; Giants 6; Phillies 2; Yankees 2; Red Sox 2; Dodgers 1; Padres 1. Several “yes” respondents declined to predict where Stanton might land.

    Actually this survey astounded me… the Cards are first?? I wonder if the FO knows anything about this?

    #37707

    gscottar
    Participant

    I, for one, will not be disappointed if we don’t get Stanton. Sure he is the biggest bat out there but it just seems to be putting all of our eggs in one basket. I would rather spread that $295M around to several high quality players instead of spending it all on one. What if he gets hurt or slumps? Then we are screwed.

    Spend the money and prospects on guys like Simmons, Cozart, Yelich, Hosmer, Bruce, Archer, Wade Davis, etc…. We can’t afford all of them obviously but if we acquire two or three of those guys we will be very strong and not so vulnerable to one injury or slump.

    #37708

    Onyxgem
    Participant

    I dunno Gscottar, i don’t really see any of those bats you want helping us really much at all, as i don’t think Yelich gets moved period…COazrt ugh,,, Simmons ehh…Hosmer bleh and Bruce no way no now…

    Big bat is what the Cards need and none of those options you offered are that at all

    #37713

    philcron77
    Participant

    I think if available Josh Donaldson would be a better fit.

    #37715

    gscottar
    Participant

    I dunno Gscottar, i don’t really see any of those bats you want helping us really much at all, as i don’t think Yelich gets moved period…COazrt ugh,,, Simmons ehh…Hosmer bleh and Bruce no way no now…

    Big bat is what the Cards need and none of those options you offered are that at all

    As Girsch has pointed out, there is more than one way to improve a club.

    #37717

    Onyxgem
    Participant

    Not when the one MAJOR whole is a power bat….if you don’t get a power bat offseason = total loss

    #37720

    thejager
    Participant

    Stanton is the big ticket player we dont have anywhere in our system and the type we wont be able to sign next offseason… he put butts in seats no matter the team’s record….

    he is the new version of the Mark McGwire signing …which is what we need right now… we didnt have a “star” outside some aging veterans and McGwire filled the gap and got people to come to the games and back to baseball in general…

    McGwire got us back on the big stage for advertising and ESPN coverage and all that crap…Stanton can do the same thing…all the while helping the team get better

    we arent getting MAchado, or Harper or Trout or Goldy or Arenado when they are available…and normally we woudlnt be able to get a guy like Stanton either…but with a trade right now we could…at worst a short term 3 years gap filler that helps the team in several ways on and off the field while we try to find the next star within the system

    his contract isnt terrible no matter how big the number is to many people…it’s only bad if he doesnt show up for any of the years….a couple 8+ WAR seasons alone make him almost worth it…

    3 years 8+ WAR (192mil value)…4 years 3 WAR (96mil)…and 3 years 2 WAR (48mil)
    where 1 WAR = 8million (and none of this includes rising salaries or WAR value going up)

    that’s 336 million of value on a 295 million dollar investment….that puts us in the black
    to break even…you barely need more than couple decent years…

    AND…the Marlins will be eating at least a little of that money no matter who they deal to

    he’s in his prime…we get him for at least his prime years…and he will cost a good starting pitching prospect (FLaherty or Hudson or Alcantara) + a couple more pieces…as long as they arent Weaver, Reyes, Kelly, maybe ONeill i dont think it will really matter…

    the team we had last year wasnt as bad as everyone thinks they were…we are far from putting all our eggs in one basket with Stanton but it is undeniable that he will help the team’s offense

    do we also need to make some other trades and a few other signigns maybe? sure…but Stanton doesnt stop that…

    MOz always said that for the “right” player the team is willign to go farther than what is comfortable…with new money and an obvious need…Stanton fits that bill to a “T”….Heyward, Price, Pujols, even RObert a bit…all were gusy we were willing to go farther on despite their cost…we just didnt go far enough…perhaps to our success…but going after Stanton is a no-brainer….and even taking the whole salary isnt stupid…but we wont have to do that anyways… what we give up is a part of it…but our no touch for him needs to be clear…we can add all sorts to it and that is what the Marlins need…they need to replenish not just get one good prospect…

    Flaherty + Sierra/Bader + Tuivalala/Gomber/another pitching prospect

    but if it takes Flaherty AND Hudson or Alcantara…so what? we have plenty more horses in the stable coming..if it means takign on one year of too much of a contract Ziegler? so what?

    it’s a good idea to get the best deal…but sometimes you work it too much and someone else will swoop in and do something stupid…. right now we have some control…but as soon a s the GM meetings start we are lowering our chances of getting a fair or good deal…IMO

    I think the Sox are trying to move Bradley so they can get Stanton….IMO

    Dodgers can back up their prospect truck and unload it if they want at any time….

    Give the Marlins a good deal right now…and even go a little over to sweeten the deal… Stanton will accept it…he knows he has little say in this as he wants to play for something and if he is a brat about where he goes they will just keep him and gut the rest of the team…they are pretty clear they arent going to try to win and their focus is on cutting salary…period

    #37736

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Will Leitch of Sports on Earth (and founder of Deadspin) wrote his version of what I posted last week – an analysis of what it might take to land Stanton. He sees it very differently from me.

    Leitch thinks the Marlins might have to pay $88 million of what is left on Stanton’s contract, a flat $8 MM per year. That would mean Miami would not get nearly as much savings up front, but the Cards would make out great financially.

    He justifies that by stating the fact that Stanton was unclaimed last August when put on waivers. The reality is that most MLB players are put on waivers, but few are claimed because the waivers are revocable. I don’t think that is a valid view of his value. If I was Miami and I had to eat $88 million to trade Stanton, I might just keep him.

    To offset the deal, he suggests Miami gets four players – Reyes, Piscotty, Grichuk and Gomber. I am ok with the quantity, but less excited about the quality in Reyes specifically. Then again, if the Cards could really get $88 MM off Stanton’s cost, it might be worth considering.

    However, the problem with this as I see it is that I think the price paid in players would be too high from the Cardinals side of the deal if Stanton walks after three years.

    When is all said and done, I really question whether the Marlins are willing to eat as much as $88 million. I think a more likely scenario is they spend less money and get fewer players in return.

    What do others think?

    http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/261723660/cardinals-trade-rumors-giancarlo-stanton

    #37739

    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    NO WAY do we trade Alex Reyes. He is UNTOUCHABLE.

    That’s what I think.

    #37740
    BlackHillsCard
    BlackHillsCard
    Participant

    I’d be fine with Grichuk, Piscotty and Gomber. But you lose me with Reyes.

    #37741

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    Not only do teams hesitate to claim guys on waivers because they are revocable but in the case of a player with a no trade clause such as Stanton it is mandatory that they be pulled back.

    #37743

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I understand it a bit differently, CC. I am pretty sure Stanton could have been claimed, but then even if Miami did not revoke the waivers, the decision would have then been Stanton’s. He could choose to invoke his no-trade protection rather than move. The same applies to players with 10 years service time, five with the current team.

    #37745

    CariocaCardinal
    Participant

    I’ll concede that Brian’s understanding is likely superior to mine. Brian, do you know how long the player has to decide?

    #37746

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    You got me there, CC. I don’t know how many hours the player is granted to decide.

    #37752

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    “…the Phillies and Marlins have not had substantive talks regarding Stanton…Stanton, the Phillies have decided, is not a fit.” per the Philadelphia Inquirer.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/giancarlo-stanton-to-philadelphia-phillies-dont-bet-on-it-20171113.html

    #37753
    Beopig
    Beopig
    Participant

    In my mind, this move would breathe, Big Mac/AP type of life back into the organization. Very few players out there could do that, but I think he easily could.

    #37755

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Not surprising news from Buster Olney:

    “Some rival execs view the Marlins’ prospect asking price for Giancarlo Stanton as shockingly high and somewhat out of touch with reality, and not discounted nearly enough given the whopping $295 million he’s owed (with the forthcoming out clause after the 2020 season).”

    https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/930409741146304512

    #37757

    14NyquisT
    Participant

    From SBNATION:

    If Stanton had three seasons left on his deal, no contending team would blink at giving up major prospects and young talent in order to get what is, presumably, the missing piece in a championship puzzle. Which brings us to reality again: Any team getting Stanton is likely hoping he opts out after three years so they don’t have to deal with the expensive risks of Stanton’s bat slowing or injuries taking their toll or whatever could befall him over the next decade-plus.

    That creates this weird balance of “We want Stanton on our team, but not for too long, but if we end up stuck with him after his opt out because of X, Y, or Z, we really are going to wish we hadn’t also given up all of these players to get him and maybe you could chip in some cash for those later seasons just in case?” while the Marlins are just sitting there going, “Are you in or are you out?” to everyone on the line.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    This team needs a slugger…. a closer and perhaps a starter. Getting ONE of those won’t get it done. If Stanton is the FO’s choice, what’s left? Flaherty, Hudson and Hicks should be off the table. I dread seeing what it will take to get Stanton.

    #37758

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    From the Boston Herald:

    “A baseball source said yesterday that he’s been told Stanton will not accept a trade to either the Red Sox or the Cardinals, another team linked early and often in trade rumors. Perhaps there’s some flexibility in that stance, but Stanton’s preference is a factor.”

    http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox/2017/11/jennings_dont_bet_on_red_sox_trading_for_giancarlo_stanton

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