Giancarlo Stanton thread

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This topic contains 617 replies, has 37 voices, and was last updated by  mudville 2 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 51 through 75 (of 618 total)
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  • #30752

    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    Now Tim Brown writes that the Marlins should NOT trade Stanton.

    https://sports.yahoo.com/no-miami-marlins-shouldnt-trade-giancarlo-stanton-130014598.html

    #30762

    mudville
    Participant

    If the organization would be willing to take on a contract the size of Stanton’s, I’d rather see them make an aggressive move for Manny Machado. There is no indication that the O’s are going to sign him, so he might be available with the right package of prospects. With Knizner putting up the kinds of numbers that he is, its not too far fetched to consider including the best catching prospect in the minors as part of an offer to the O’s.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  mudville.
    #30766

    mudville
    Participant

    I can’t see the Cardinals giving a 13 year contract for $320M to Machado like the Marlins gave to Stanton. But they might go beyond their comfort level like they did with Heyward. IMO, its arguable that Machado brings more to his game than Stanton does.

    #30769

    LoganAlpha30X7
    Participant

    But would the Cardinals spend so much to trade for Machado without a guarantee that he’d sign, otherwise it’d be a terrible waste of prospects and such…Stanton we at least would be guaranteed how long he’d be on the team or we’d know when to trade him then…

    #30775

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    “Marlins president David Samson says there has not been one conversation with Derek Jeter group about trading Giancarlo Stanton,” reports Bob Nightengale.

    https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/897950337017028608

    #30782

    mudville
    Participant

    I wouldn’t want to give up some of our top prospects without an agreement in place, either. The good news, I guess, is that Machado does not have Bor-ass for an agent, so free agency is not a given. The bad news is that the Cardinals would likely have to pay the asking price that Machado’s agent lays down. There will probably not be much negotiating unless Machado and his agent would rather get a contract done a year earlier than the rest of the 2018 free agent class which is so loaded. Also, almost all of the big spenders are apparently already set at third base including the Yankees who have Torres to play third base for them, and that could give Machado and his agent, Dan Lozano, some motivation to get an agreement in place. Whatever happens, I don’t believe the Cardinals front office will do something that will hurt the organization in the years ahead. You can’t rule out any possibility, until its not.

    #30787

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    In case folks do not remember, Lozano also represents Albert Pujols.

    #31890

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    One great player can elevate a below-average team into a contender.

    From Baseball America:

    “The 27-year-old became the first National League player to hit 50 home runs in a season since Prince Fielder in 2007, and he’s done it with a remarkable recent stretch. Stanton has hit 29 home runs in his past 46 games, at a rate of one homer every six at-bats. He is on pace to become just the sixth player in history to hit 60 home runs in a season and the first since Sammy Sosa hit 64 and Barry Bonds his 73 in 2001.

    “Most important, Stanton’s dominance has elevated his team. The Marlins are 29-18 since he began this stretch on July 5, the fourth-best record in the NL in that time behind only the Dodgers, Nationals and Cubs. With it, the Marlins have rallied from a below-.500 season to just 4 1/2 games back of a wild-card spot.”

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/three-up-three-down-hoskins-brings-the-hammer/#MHzcdLDYyFxkBFoc.99

    #32339

    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    I thought it was quite interesting to hear the Cardinal announcers talk about how the new Miami ownership wants to cut payroll. Other articles out there about the same thing.

    As Tim and Dan said, would be great to see Stanton in St. Louis for ten years.

    r/Rat

    #32340

    LoganAlpha30X7
    Participant

    Though if it happens it won’t happen until after the season as if we made the playoffs now not sure that Stanton could play given that the trade would be done as late as it is and all…

    #32344

    mudville
    Participant

    I thought the same thing, Rat. It almost seems like there’s some smoke out on the trade horizon. Its still hard to imagine that a trade with the Cardinals could happen without the Marlins taking back $40M – $50M of Stanton’s contract.

    #32405

    thejager
    Participant

    how is Stanton not worth his contract as is?

    plus he can opt out in 2020 (which i think he undoubtedly will because i think he can get even more)

    Guy is at 53 HRs and is carrying the MArlins into contention… he is THE most feared bat in all baseball right now…which is what we need?

    I think all teams WANT to have the Marlins eat some…who woudlnt…but i dont see why we wouldnt take it all… we have the money and he brings the fans with his HR ball no matter what…we have the room in the contract as is basically..adding Lynn too makes it tight though

    but so what? he alone makes the lineup work better and moves us up a rung in the Central again

    His contract isnt even that bad…especially compared to what is coming after next year for Machado (down year)…and HArper (knee injury)

    He’d end his career (if he didnt leave in 2020) at 37 which isnt even DONE for many players…

    also he only has 3 years where his contract is over 30mil (32mil)…and it isnt even his last couple years

    His contract is a pretty good bargain even if he drops in production at 35…and if he leaves in 2020 the most we’d pay is 26mil which is nothign for his impact…

    2018 Contract details by year 28 $25,000,000 – $25,000,000 $25,000,000
    2019 Contract details by year 29 $26,000,000 – $26,000,000 $26,000,000
    2020 Contract details by year 30 $26,000,000 – $26,000,000 $26,000,000
    2021 Contract details by year 31 $29,000,000 – $29,000,000 $29,000,000
    2022 Contract details by year 32 $29,000,000 – $29,000,000 $29,000,000
    2023 Contract details by year 33 $32,000,000 – $32,000,000 $32,000,000
    2024 Contract details by year 34 $32,000,000 – $32,000,000 $32,000,000
    2025 Contract details by year 35 $32,000,000 – $32,000,000 $32,000,000
    2026 Contract details by year 36 $29,000,000 – $29,000,000 $29,000,000
    2027 Contract details by year 37 $25,000,000 – $25,000,000 $25,000,000
    2028 Contract details by year 38 $25,000,000 – $25,000,000 $25,000,000

    #32408

    Brianpnoonan
    Participant

    For those who don’t think he is worth his contract…

    WAR value is exponential. To give an idea of what I mean, Someone with their WAR value in the 8-10 range is worth somewhere in the neighborhood as the yankees entire payroll.

    In one year.

    Guys like fowler are overpaid. Guys like stanton and trout are severely underpaid.

    It is the nature of the beast…. For the same reason lebron is underpaid. He is just that good. But if you pay him like he is worth you cant build a team around him

    I dont think stanton will come here because he doesnt want to be in the midwest but to say he isnt worth his contract is ignoring some very large inconvenient facts — that he is going to come very close to paying for his contract this year for one.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by  Brianpnoonan.
    #32419

    bccran
    Participant

    That’s if you think baseball players are worth that. Stanton type salaries are ridiculous in the overall scheme of things.

    #32425

    Brianpnoonan
    Participant

    … Which is a different argument.

    Entertainers have always made more money than laborers for the effort involved.

    #32428

    thejager
    Participant

    it doesnt really matter if i think baseball players are worth their salaries…it’s how they are perceived and valued in the business

    if WAR is legit then Stanton seems to be worth his contract…

    add in the rising salaries every year he will definitely be a bargain

    i dont think the argument about him not wanting to come to the midwest is valid until we hear it from his mouth or at least some other mouths outside of an unknown person via a radio show

    many teams cant afford him because even at his reasonable salary he woudl tip their budgets over…i get them wanting to get him for less money… but the Cardinals are not one of those teams…

    even if wee added him and took on Lynn again…we would be fine…we have a very team friendly rotation when it comes to money (especially once Waino comes off the books)…bullpen is deep with young money…even the lineup is full of low cost players and low cost players backing them up…

    the only argument against him to me…is that he is injury prone (not counting his HBPs)…and his production has went very far up and very far down so far in his career…i worry he will develop a flaw that teams will take advantage of…THEN we’d be sitting on an albatross contract for a guy who wont do the think we want him to do….though even if he halved his HR total and hit .250 he’d be an asset for the fear in the lineup and his OF arm and defense is pretty good…

    i still think it s not that likely… however looking at the MArlins pitching depth…we definitely have the young talent to offer to help them in the young cheap pitching department, perhaps better than any other team out there…we may not have the best hitters to offer, but we do have quality OFs to offer who are not bad…and cheap…or affordable (Piscotty)… IMO we match up pretty well with what the Marlins might want…if i was the MArlins i’d be chucking Stanton and putting in enough money to gain 4 solid cheap players who may not be All Stars but will help them cheaply afford to build their farm back up…quantity over quality to SOME degree

    #32443

    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    I agree jager.

    And another thing to consider is that it seems to me that to solidify your name as one of the greats of the game means you need a World Series ring. That seems a lot more possible it will happen to him with St. Louis rather than with Miami.

    r/Rat

    #32445

    mudville
    Participant

    Miami’s attendance is the 28th lowest among all MLB teams. I don’t see how anyone can say that Stanton’s contract pays for itself. Except, of course, if you’re an agent, you can say that each WAR is worth so much money, etc ….blah, blah blah.

    The Cardinals can afford Stanton’s contract now. But what about when he’s 38 years old? Do we really want an aging, overweight outfielder, gorging himself on another $25M?

    Its true that many teams cannot afford Stanton’s contract. But what does that say about the overall health of the game? Forget about twisting the numbers around. Just look at all the empty eats in Pittsburgh, Miami, Oakland, Chicago, and so many other ballparks, including San Francisco.

    #32447

    Brianpnoonan
    Participant

    Relative value-wise he is worth wha tI stated

    What teams can afford individually is a different question.

    #32543

    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    At least if Stanton was in St. Louis he wouldn’t have to worry about hurricanes like Irma.

    #32544

    PadsFS
    Participant

    Baseball does not have declining attendance:

    attend

    #32557

    mudville
    Participant

    Those figures are based on seats sold, not fans in attendance.

    #33839

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    USA TODAY’s Bob Nightengale explains why he thinks Stanton will end up with the Giants and who the Cards may target instead.

    https://www.101sports.com/2017/09/21/nightengale-thinks-cardinals-will-target-j-d-martinez-instead-stanton-offseason/

    #34330

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    MLB owners have approved the sale of the Marlins to a group led by Bruce Sherman and Derek Jeter.

    According to this story from a few weeks ago…

    “…Jeter and Sherman plan to cut the Marlins’ payroll to as low as $55 million if they’re able to trade home run slugger Giancarlo Stanton, or $80-$85 million if they keep Stanton and his $25 million salary for next season.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/derek-jeter-cut-marlins-payroll-55m-report-article-1.3466664

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by  Brian Walton.
    #35239

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Jon Heyman lists the Cards as #1 leading target for Stanton for two reasons – Stanton says he wants to play for a winning team and St. Louis has pitching prospects Miami may want.

    https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-who-is-leading-the-stanton-sweepstakes/

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