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The friendly attitude, the smile, his ’16 season got us a whole lot of very little. His contract is insanity for an average, (if he’s that), LF. If the FO is reluctant to trading solid prospects then play them and go with that. DeJong, Sierra, Kelly, Bader, O’Neill, Flaherty, Alcantara, there’s a lot of talent there. Even if we sign a free agent, we might wind up with another Fowler contract that pulls the entire team down. He’s just standing in the way of progress, as many stated when he was signed.
From the article:
“I see myself being here for a long time, that’s what I signed up for,” said Dexter. “That’s what my contract says, but at the end of the day, it’s up to Mo. It’s Mo’s decision and I’m looking to build a legacy with my teammates.”
But the first year here was not always smooth. Besides not wanting to move from centerfield, which was noticed in the clubhouse, Fowler caught some heat nationally back in Spring Training when he opened up after being asked about issues his wife, who is of Iranian descent, faced in traveling and visiting family back in Iran.
Criticism later gained volume as he tried to play through some injuries, which affected his play in center.
“I don’t recall guaranteeing anything other than a lot of money, but I could go back and look at my notes,” quipped John Mozeliak at his end of season press conference when asked if he guaranteed Fowler would play the position when he signed.
Doesn’t sound like a happy family.
While Dex is slipping a bit as an outfielder, and would be better in left based on the numbers, he seems to be maturing some as a power hitter. Had he played all season he might have been a 25 homer guy.
I think he could be a solid left fielder on this club in 2018, with the added value of being an excellent teammate and clubhouse leader. As Stull’s article points out, anything is possible and we will see how things look going into Spring Training, but right now I see Fowler and Pham covering two outfield spots.
We would love to see a proven third outfielder, such as Stanton or Yelich, but those are unknowns at this point. I have Bader penciled in as the third outfielder right now. Historically Piscotty is a little better offensively, but not much, and Bader has a better overall game the Steven (better speed and defense). But it could be that both of those guys will be gone if a big deal is cut, so it all may look different come next season. The club probably prefers to deal Piscotty and his contract, but the other trade partner no doubt will want Bader over Piscotty.
The whole thing regarding his wife was only a big deal by Trump supporters and was blown out of proportion. Of course he’d have problems with the Muslim ban as many other Americans did.
But to stay on topic Fowler will either need to change positions or be benched. Its a lot of money to bench him but if he isn’t going to help the team by moving he either needs to sit or accept a trade. His injuries had nothing to do with his poor defense. Substandard doesn’t even begin to describe how bad he was.
I think Fowler will be fine in LF. We have bigger problems to address before we need to address Fowler. However, Fowler HAS to be playing LF. We have much better CFs on the roster.
Pads, your wRC+ by batting order position is quite telling that the Cardinals have problems. It is sad that our “best” hitters are in the first and second positions while the league average is in third and fourth.
Also, our fifth place is pretty sad. Who is our fifth place hitter? ….. Oh yes. Enough said.
Carpenter
Pham
DeJong
Martinez
Fowler
Gyorko
Molina
WongLooks to me, as it stands, either Fowler or Gyorko is our 5th place hitter.
Actually, NJ, maybe it might make some difference having DeJong and Martinez for a whole season, Wong with more then 411 PAs, Gyorko with more than 481 PAs, and Fowler with more than 491 PAs. Just a guess though.
bccran, please explain why you think with the same players “as it stands now” that the manager would significantly change his 2017 batting order for 2018. I’ve read nothing to suggest that is coming. Certainly not moving Molina from fifth to seventh.
To be very specific, for the entire 2017 season, Molina started ZERO games batting lower than sixth (and only 13 even as low as sixth).
I sense you may be representing what you would like to see as what Matheny will do. But as I said, if you can direct me somewhere to read up if I am out of date with the team’s plans, please do. Thanks.
bccran
Participant
Carpenter
Pham
DeJong
Martinez
Fowler
Gyorko
Molina
WongLooks to me, as it stands, either Fowler or Gyorko is our 5th place hitter.
If this is a response to my post about the fifth place hitter, neither Fowler or Gyorko was the 5th place hitter responsible for the poor wRC+. However, I think that IF (highly doubtful) Fowler or Gyorko were our 5th place hitter, that would be a big improvement on wRC+ by the end of 2018. I also don’t see us having the same lineup next year.
Would be happy to Brian, but that will take some research and I’ll be tied up in business meetings most of the afternoon here in St. Louis. But I would ask, didn’t Martinez bat 4th at times this season? Maybe 118 or so PAs? And didn’t Gyorko also bat 4th at times? Something like 358 PAs? So doesn’t suggesting them at 4th and 5th have some validity? Just wondering.
My main question is why you think the Cardinals will hit Molina seventh in a scenario with all the same players as 2017. I did not intend to ask you to do additional research. I just wanted to understand what is behind your list… But that is fine. An immediate reply is certainly not expected – how you spend your day is clearly your business, not ours.
To the two guys you mentioned instead of Molina, I question if Martinez will have the staying power to be a cleanup hitter on any playoff-caliber team. (Frankly, I actually do not expect he will be a starter next season for the Cardinals at all, but that is against the assumptions of this mini-exercise.) Gyorko did bat fourth at times, but as I see it, there are two reasons why. One is that he was hot for a while. The other was that they had no one else (and they still don’t, IMO).
Then again, who bats fourth does not answer why the Cards would bat Molina seventh, something that did not occur even once this past season.
Molina batted 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th, with my far the most PA at 5th. With the emergence of DeJong and Martinez, and Carpenter moving back into the leadoff sport, it might make sense for Yadi to bat lower in the lineup next season. That’s all.
Martinez is an enigma. In 11 years in the minors he had the following slash – .294/.355/.766. In 2 seasons at AAA however, it was .324/.392/.875. Then he’s finally given a shot at the majors, and it’s .316/.386/.903. In 385 PAs at the major league level he’s hit 14 home runs. Maybe we have another Ryan Ludwick type on our hands. And perhaps that’s what Mo is thinking?
“…it might make sense for Yadi to bat lower in the lineup next season.”
On that, we agree. In fact, it likely should have been done this season. But yet with the same players on hand, it was not.
I think the disconnect is that I interpreted your initial post as what you believe the team will be doing – vs. what you think would be better to try instead. The latter is your point of view and you are certainly entitled to it.
Martinez plays positions that could be easily part of an upgrade. In his comments yesterday, Mo said that catcher is the only starting job filled for next year. I think Martinez is near the other end of that spectrum from Molina, but only the front office really knows how they feel.
As I said, he’s an enigma. He and DeJong seemed to be the only ones still pumping hard at the end of the season. If you take is “to date” MLB numbers out to a full season, it looks like this –
.316/.386//903/28hr/94rbi. What do you do with that? Must be an interesting discussion in
the post season meetings that they’re having.As an aside, did you read the interesting article in the Post Dispatch about the results when Pham, Fowler, and Wong were all in the lineup? Its titled “Alignment of the Stars”. Interesting read.
Bccran, I am saying this to embarras you but to educate. The typical definition of “slash line” includes BA/OBP/SLG not BA/OBP/OPS.
CC –
As you stated, why are you “saying this to embarrass me”?
I use BA, OBP, and then OPS since
OPS has recently gotten to be so popular and it saves people having to add OBP and slugging percentage. Just saving time by not including the slugging percentage. Or lazy. Or both.You may use it but it would be no different than someone using a word that means one thing when they mean something else just because they wanted to save time or were lazy. “Slash line” has a specific definition (see the link I provided) if you want to use something that doesn’t meet that definition then you should call it something else.
bc, I think CC meant to say “I am NOT saying this to embarrass you but to educate”. I am struggling to recall a time that CC would say that he meant to embarrass someone or ridicule someone or belittle them.
Also, bc, have you ever considered that someone would read your way of putting up a player’s numbers and mistake OPS for SLG? What you are doing could lead to confusion since it doesn’t follow standard slash lines. Someone might reasonably misquote that player’s OPS based on your shortcut.
Okay, from now on when I look up information I’ll include all 4.
Should I refer to that modification as slash + OPS?I never thought that people would confuse the last number with slugging percentage because it’s normally at such a higher level that it couldn’t be confused.
I really did it to get to OPS faster, and felt that OBP and OPS were the two key numbers anyway. That’s all.
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