Cardinals OF roundup, who stays and who goes? (Grichuk)

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This topic contains 349 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by  mudville 2 weeks, 6 days ago.

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    Brian Walton

    I especially scratched my head over the part where he defends the idea of keeping Grichuk because he thinks Ozuna is likely to be gone in 2020 and beyond.




    Hope all the fans have patience when Fowler hurts his foot/heel again and Pham pulls a muscle patting himself on the back or whatever little ouchie sends him on his yearly DL trip.

    I wouldn’t doubt that Bader or O’Neill could outproduce either of them if given the chance. It’s not likely, but could happen. Bader was on par with Ian Happ going into the 2017 season. I could see him produce well in extended ML time. O’Neill, with his BB%, would be, at least, as good as 2016 Brandon Moss with better defense.

    How many outfielders do you think we need backing up Fowler and Pham?

    Right now, I have:
    Ozuna, Pham, Fowler – starters
    Martinez, Bader – backups in STL

    O’Neill, Mercado, Garcia – AAA starters
    Schafer, Valera, Munoz – backups in AAA

    Drake, Arozarena, Woodman – AA starters
    Spitz, Thomas – backups in AA

    That’s an incredibly deep outfield pool in AAA, 4 top 20 prospects(with Bader), plus a couple of versatile infielders and Schafer if used. Then you have Arozarena in AA, who like Brianpnoonan said is still blocked from a AAA promotion due to our stockpile. Carlson also would typically be a candidate to skip A+ ball and go right to Springfield, but there isn’t likely room to even consider it.



    Gordo’s article makes no sense. Grichuk was surplus and we used that surplus to address an area of need. Our OF in Memphis could be the starting OF for some MLB teams. We have plenty of depth there.



    Pads for the win… 🙂

    That graphic, for all my quirks and ranting (occasionally wrongly) is exactly why a slightly above average outfielder with a big contract is expendable.

    Paying for WAR on the margin (free agents) means paying for mediocre is always stupid because you end up paying millions for an extra .5 WAR. It also means when you have viable replacements in your pipeline that you have to be proactive in clearing the way or you end up with untradeable contracts and players.

    REGARDLESS … I realize we aren’t trading fowler no matter how wrong it is. But I think we could end up with more deals yet… Simply because of that graphic.

    Our depth in pitching and outfielders is ridiculous.

    It could very easily be something like O’Neill for a closer… And it doesnt have to be before the season starts necessarily.

    The worst part of a pipeline that deep is that you are pretty much forced to be proactive. However if you are smart, you can make some nice moves to help.

    This one helped.



    Where would Conner Greene rate on everyone’s prospect list?

    Did MLB put him in our top 30?

    I think he is better than the other Connor, Connor Jones, whom we put at #23. Is he higher than Woodford or Fernandez in the mid-teens?

    In the homepage article, Brian surmised that Greene would repeat at AA, starting out in the Springfield rotation. That rotation will have some high-octane hurlers with Greene alongside Jordan Hicks, Junior Fernandez, and Derian Gonzalez

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by  PadsFS.

    Brian Walton

    MLB Pipeline stuck Greene in at #23 (just after Helsley!), but their new 2018 list is not out yet.

    They also have Knizner at #27 – after Zach Jackson and Nick Plummer, so that should tell you something about their list – a hodgepodge.

    I penciled Greene into my Double-A rotation for several reasons. One is that he did not dominate at the level in 2017 and I’d like to see the Cards try to help him with his control first. Another is that the Triple-A rotation is loaded. A third is that this will be his first option year, so there is no hurry to rush him.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 5 days ago by  Brian Walton.


    VEB… Greene #22A ahead of Fernandez.


    Brian Walton

    From the Jays radio play-by-play man:

    Grichuk: “Sometimes in STL, me and the other OFs thought we would have to get two hits, or two hits and a walk, to be in the lineup the next day, and that’s not good for anybody.”

    Sour grapes, a legitimate complaint or both?



    Both imo… It is one reason consolidating talent helps.


    I say “both” as well. The main gripe I have with Matheny is his constant lineup changes. It does seem like he has a few guys that he tends to rarely stick with over a stretch of games if they have a bad game or two.

    But to be fair in terms of Grichuk, he has not improved his game enough to where he earned regular time. The second half of 2016 he looked to be on the verge, but still struggled with poor plate discipline.



    Just get your two hits and stop worrying! : )



    RG is right MM has not idea what he is doing when making lineups utterly clueless



    I lean towards sour grapes on this one. Grichuk was given every opportunity imaginable to become an everyday player and he couldn’t get it done.

    “Coffee is for closers”.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by  gscottar.


    LaRussa definitely used just as many lineups as Matheny. You can find this out on if you don’t believe.

    Regarding the comments, Matheny even said similar things about taking the blame for Grichuk in the press, that he (Grichuk) was maybe struggling because of Matheny jockeying.

    If he hit or ever actually took a walk, there wouldn’t be a problem. If you have to go to the minor leagues to figure things out, you aren’t the most consistent ballplayer. We can’t afford to rely on inconsistency like that. Let the Blue Jays take the risk.



    Maybe we can let the Blue Jays take our manager to and make it all better 🙂



    Grichuk’s comments are out of hurt. Understandable.

    Different subject –

    Has anyone compared G. Garcia-

    Understand their position histories.


    Brian Walton

    bccran, I haven’t much thought about it due to Garcia’s incumbency. A year from now, when he moves into arbitration eligibility, is when I think he becomes the next Daniel Descalso (non-tendered and replaced from within). Of the names you cited, Munoz has the most defensive versatility.

    P.S. In hindsight, bccran, perhaps your subject of the identity of the backup infielder warrants its own thread, rather being tacked onto this outfield topic. I will recopy my above reply there if you want to start the new discussion.



    Munoz played basically SS and OF last year between AA and AAA with a sprinkling of 3b

    Valera played 2b and OF…and OF in the winter

    Schrock played 2b only at AA

    I feel dumb but i dont know who Urias is… i thought maybe Luis Urias but i thought he was in the Padres system…he split time at 2b and ss at AA San Antonio


    Brian Walton

    It is Ramon.

    Hint. Check the Memphis roster here or the Roster Matrix (located in the same menu area on the left) or just enter his last name in the site search box. The search area is located at the far upper right of this and all pages in blue with a magnifying glass icon. The search here on the new site actually works ok (as opposed to Scout). 😉

    The search will bring up a detailed article about him that I posted when he joined the organization. (Update: That is for members. I knew Jager is one but should not have assumed that for everyone when I posted this. Sorry I was unclear, but note that player pages are always free.)

    Also, as long as I am sharing tips, there is a second search for the forums only. It is located on the main FORUMS page, where you select either this forum or the Insiders one. That page can be reached by clicking on FORUMS, again up top, two spots to the left of the blue magnifying glass.

    P.S. Not picking on you, Jager. I am just using this to educate folks that there is a lot of free capability here that not everyone is using.



    That’s cool Brian… no worries… my bookmark to this forum comes straight to this forum, and not to the front page, so i miss the new stories often because i start at the forum and then go to the front page for the articles

    probably shouldnt do that, but perhaps others do the saem thing

    im just excited i get to go look at a new player for the system!

    and very intriguing…2b/ss split time in 2017
    hit for good average and had 19 HRs last year in mexican league…im sure that wont carry over, but he can obviously hit it out of some parks.. decent amount of walks and strikeouts werent TOO high



    Brian Walton

    While we have new content 365 days a year, 27 articles fit on the front page before they fall to page 2.




    i guess the point is that, it isnt really fair to assume everyone reads the front page every time they visit the forums…whether a member or not

    and in the case of URias…it’s probably pretty easy to overlook him as his signing coincided with Guillmet who seemed to be the only one anyone really focused their reporting on…

    i take no offense in missing anything of importance as i jump around and my focus jumps from various platforms…i expect to miss things

    but someone name dropping Urias and expecting everyone to be on board with understanding who he is based on a members only article which coincided with another signing who was already a pretty boring news day shouldnt be surprising

    i dont expect anyone to repeat the whole article…but something along the lines of:

    “No worries i understand why anyone would have missed him…Urias…Ramon… recently signed out of Mexico, middle infielder…we had an article about him, it was in the PReston Guillmet article if you want to go take a look”

    I know you arent picking on me…but i think understanding that everyone here isnt a member, as well as they may not even go to the front page and it was in a pretty obscure article to begin with

    repeating a little info that has to be paid for isnt a big deal…and if that is the only real place to know who a guy who comes up in a discussion is it kind of seems necessary

    the thing i am kicking myself over is that i keep forgetting about Tovar!

    Thanks for all the hard work Brian!




    VEB… Greene #22A ahead of Fernandez.

    One fascinating thing about Greene is comparing him to Sandy Alcantara.

    Both have a similar stature and pitched primarily in AA this year at the same age.

    Alcantara had a 4.31 ERA, and a 4.62 FIP in 125 innings.

    Greene had a 5.29 ERA and a 4.49 FIP in 132 innings.



    Nice part about a guy like that is you can throw him in the bullpen and if he gets a second pitch he can have a very long, solid career.

    100 mph can’t be taught. All he needs to do is harness it for 15 pitches at a time.

    …. If he happens to be able to do more, great.


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