2018 Gold Glove Award "finalists"

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This topic contains 16 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  SoonerinNC 3 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #36905

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    In a somewhat silly process designed to draw more attention to the awards, they announce in advance the top three vote-getters for each Gold Glove Award, calling them finalists. In reality, the votes have been counted and the winners are known. We just have to wait longer to find out.

    Anyway, for NL catcher, Molina, Buster Posey and Tucker Barnhart are the top three. Posey won last year, breaking Molina’s eight-year hold on the award.

    #36914

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    The SABR Defensive Index counts for 25% of Gold Glove scoring. In most recent results, through 8/27, among NL catchers, Barnhart was third, Molina fifth and Posey sixth.

    http://sabr.org/sdi/2017-08-27#NLC

    #36927

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    No other Cardinals named Gold Glove Award finalists, so it will be Molina or bust in 2017.

    #36932

    thejager
    Participant

    grats to Yadi

    Barnhardt had a pretty impressive season behind the dish…didnt see alot of Posey this year, and a lot of Molina who i think was much improved from last year

    will be a tough call, Barnhardt might deserve it but not get it… Posey or Molina will probably always get bonus points for past and offensive prowess (though Barnhrdt wasnt a total slouch on offense)

    #36971

    PadsFS
    Participant

    Sort of ridiculous Pham didn’t get recognized in LF or Gyorko at 3B.

    #36972

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    NL SABR defensive rankings thru 8/27: Gyorko 2nd, Pham 4th at their positions.

    “Finalists” 3B in SDI
    Arenado 1st
    Rendon 3rd
    Freese 4th

    “Finalists” LF in SDI
    Ozuna 1st
    Hernan Perez 2nd
    Chris Taylor 3rd

    So in Gyorko’s case, the votes must have been against him. Maybe there is some built in prejudice because he was a second baseman playing third. Just a wild guess, though.

    In Pham’s case, it looks like he was on the borderline. Both Perez and Taylor are multi-position guys, which makes their candidacy cloudier.

    It is nice bragging rights, I guess, to be a finalist, but I will be very surprised if Arenado and Ozuna aren’t the winners.

    #37070

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    The Fielding Bible Awards, separate from Gold Glove, have been announced. Just one player per position for all of MLB. No Cards chosen, with Martin Maldonado of the Angels their selection at catcher.

    Molina won six times, most recently in 2013.

    Here are the nine winners for 2017.

    https://twitter.com/BillyBall/status/925022868601294848

    #37459

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I think Molina’s Gold Glove ship has sailed. Rather than Posey repeating, the winner is Tucker Barnhart.

    #37479

    Cardinals2016
    Participant

    Yeah, so the Cardinals walked away from a trade for Ozuna with the Marlins last year. Instead they signed Fowler for 5 years/$82.5 million. Not only did Ozuna have a career year at the plate, he won a Gold Glove, while Fowler put up one of the worst defensive seasons among center fielders, in a year the Cardinals talked about needing defensive improvements.
    https://www.fishstripes.com/2017/11/7/16621188/miami-marlins-marcell-ozuna-wins-2017-rawlings-gold-glove-award-left-field

    #37483

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I did not see any reference to the Cardinals supposedly walking away from an Ozuna trade in that article.

    P.S. My gut tells me that if Ozuna had been that available, he would have been traded somewhere long before now. He has been rumored to be on the block for well over a year, but there seems far more smoke than fire. Maybe that will change with the Jeter group, but the current rumors are they prefer to keep the players on lower-price deals, including Yelich and Ozuna, and instead, trade the higher-dollar guys like Stanton, Gordon and Prado.

    #37521

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Bernie Miklasz presents a case that Molina should have won the Gold Glove instead of Barnhart. A key element of his position is that Molina played more than Barnhart. I do not attach the same importance to that as he does. What do others think?

    https://www.101sports.com/2017/11/08/yadier-molina-won-eight-gold-gloves-deserves/

    P.S. In the final SABR Defensive Index rankings for 2017, Molina finished fifth among NL catchers. Barnhart was second to Austin Hedges. That was 25% of the total GG score.

    #37525

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I listed all the Cardinals defenders’ scoring in the SDI in this free article.

    http://thecardinalnation.com/sdi-helps-explain-why-no-cardinals-won-gold-gloves/

    #37544

    PadsFS
    Participant

    One of the reasons cited for Posey winning it in 2016 was because he was one of the top pitch framers in baseball. This year Barnhart was one of the worst, but I guess they threw that stat out this year.

    #37545

    PadsFS
    Participant

    See below:

      feet

    Okay, Baseball Prospectus has the most comprehensive defensive catcher metrics available. This is called Fielding Runs Above Average. It encompasses framing runs, blocking runs and throwing runs. If you add fielding ground balls and popups, it would become adjusted FRAA, or FRAA_ADJ.

    When you add every catcher in baseball, you GG winner should have been Austin Hedges +24 (he is a stud defender and I’m betting future GGer) Our Yadi would rank 4th in the National League, 10th overall with a good, but not GG caliber +6.4.

    Barnhart, while leading Blocking Runs and Throwing Runs, was ranked 76th overall; -2.9.
    He ranked better here on framing than on StatCorner, he was 104th out of 110.

    This is a solid post from another site about what I am referring to with Barnhart.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  PadsFS.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  PadsFS.
    #37555

    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    I am curious who cited pitch framing as a reason Posey won the Gold Glove in 2016 and why did they say that? Since the manager and coach vote is 75% of the scoring and the SABR Defensive Index the other 25%, unless the latter is heavily skewed that way, which it does not appear to be, I don’t get the direct connection. Or did somebody poll all the voters after the fact?

    #37607

    PadsFS
    Participant

    Perhaps there weren’t actual voters that shared their rational, but there were plenty of articles, which pointed it out as the reason he won. Russell Martin got the same treatment back in the early 2000’s when he won out over Molina.

    For instance:
    http://www.espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/78264/what-makes-buster-posey-baseballs-best-defensive-catcher

    I just think it’s funny that NO ONE is mentioning it at all now that Barnhart won the GG since he was one of the worst pitch framers in all of baseball. Catcher defense just seems very arbitrary.

    #37616

    SoonerinNC
    Participant

    Molina has definitely lost something in his ability to block pitches in the dirt. Just doesn’t get in front of them the way he used to do. However, the big intangible is his plus value in making the pitchers more effective. Reyes was a very different pitcher with Molina catching him vs the guys in Memphis.

    If Molina doesn’t make the hall it will be a travesty, his defense, his handling of pitchers, his clutch hitting. That is going to be very hard to replace.

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